Outsourcing prospecting was raised in another thread

and I got to thinking ....why?

We don't outsource other parts of the sales process usually do we.

I wonder if there is a market for selling the outsourcing of.....let's see....closing?

Handling objections?

What do others thing to my little observation? -helisell

sory...what do others 'think'....duh! -helisell

sorry...too late...I'm going to bed! -helisell

A sneaky way to get the last word I'm thinking..... thmbp2;

Aloha... shds; ;bg -rattus58

It’s a numbers game. The more you refine the numbers, I think the more you find qualified numbers further recede. We got two or three appointments a week selling cemetery and funeral plans. When we didn’t have appointments it was…. “Knock knock” “Who’s there?” “Tommy” “Tommy who?” “Little Tommy salesman, wearing out my shoe!”
What our handlers told us was that when we went on appointment, we closed about 20% a week. When we started at one end of a street and worked a camp for a couple of weeks we did way way better, sometimes as much doing it ourselves.
Outsourcing hasn’t been real popular with computers. It is not real popular with mail order and Big Box house order/returns. Personally I think that if you want to have the best result for your client, you keep it as close to you as possible.
Aloha Tom shds; ;bg -rattus58

Helisell I sense I don't have to tell you that outsourcing lead generation is not an uncommon practice in many industries. I also sense that I don't have to tell you that lead generation is a different skill set and mind set than selling which is allows for such outsourcing to happen. -SalesProfessor

Hi s/prof....well I've been saying it's a different skill set for a while and it seems that most don't agree.

But....(I think this is called a paradox) I agree with Rattus that it is usually better to keep it all under ones own control.

However...since I made the shift over to ...the dark side...I have seen fantastic results with lead generation programs.

It is a totally different (and scary for the uninitiated) mindset doing modern lead generation.

I.E. Compelling copy to a highly targetted audience, ethical bait and a low profit front end sales mechanism with a sophisticated follow up system.

I would never have thought it possible that 'lead generation' (re-active selling?) could achieve such results, but I have used it a lot in the last five years to great effect. -helisell

I use leads from any source I can and have some best success with leads with targeted markets, such as contractors, doctors etc.

Leads are one thing, and if you will "qualify" the lead even further, like call and verify names, employee count, etc, you can have even better result than cold. The problem with Leads, is that companyies like AFLAC and other, will send their kids out and some people hear from sales members 4 or 5 times a year in some areas. This hurts.

I'd be curious how an outsourced lead, outsourced service, outsourced return would work for a person selling something like a high end copier or MFC?

Much Aloha... :cool: -rattus58

Helisell I got the impression that you believed prospecting, such as cold calling, could be outsourced because it was a different skillset than selling - which is why it could be outsourced to begin with. Are you suggesting that most here don't agree with that viewpoint? -SalesProfessor

Yes. I keep reading threads telling me that cold calling and 'selling' (for the want of a better word) are the same.

So I'm asking myself why is there a market for outsourcing just a single part of the sales process ...namely the 'prospecting/cold calling' part..if it is just another part of the sales process.

It may well be but, it is also the most skillful part as far as I am concerned. -helisell

Hi Helisell.... :)

I think when you say that cold calling and selling are the same, you ARE involved with the same skill sets, just a different point of route.

Much Aloha.... :cool: -rattus58

I think we are back to a topic which Jeff closed as a thread that had "run its course."

I honestly thought this was a thread about the viability, practicality, and possibilities of outsourcing parts of the sales process, inasmuch as cold calling is frequently outsourced. But if it is just a new discussion to build a premise in order to reopen the discussion that Jeff closed, I want to ask exactly what the value is in spending so much time in categorizing these things. Most of us who sell know what has to be done, and we go out and do it. -Ace Coldiron

I agree with you Ace..........so why does this small part of the sales process get outsourced.......but not the rest of the process? -helisell

Ace Coldiron it makes no sense to me to have a website dedicated to learning about selling only to shut down people's questions because most of us who sell know what has to be done, and we go out and do it.

Helisell cold calling is a candidate for outsourcing because it is a limited skill set - unlike Selling - that can be taught relatively quickly and hired out relatively inexpensively. -SalesProfessor

I believe I have a partial, yet strong answer which I'll share here, because I'm presently engaged in writing some material on the subject.

There is a very widespread tendency for companies, large and small, to assign one of the most difficult and skill-intensive tasks in selling to the least prepared and qualified candidates for the job. I'm referring to neophytes at entry-level positions as well as non-sales personnel being handed some additional tasks to keep them busy.

One of the reasons for this poor delegation is that the assignors have no more understanding of cold calling than the assignees.

As a result, many companies switch gears and look for external help from people who supposedly know what they are doing. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

What I described above is one of the biggest and most irresponsible waste of human resources in business today, and like many things, very representative of the presence of the Peter Principle at the top. -Ace Coldiron

I'm reminded of that wonderful scene in 'Glengarry-GlenRoss' when Ed Harris says "just give me the go**am leads and I'll sell 'em" whinging and griping about the bad leads......when all the while Al Pacino has found a hot one in the bar.

I think it is outsourced because sales organisations can't get their existing sales staff to do it well. -helisell

A sidenote: Pacino was using a technique in that bar very much in the style that is taught in Sandler Selling.

Sorry, Paulette--everything has a dark side. -Ace Coldiron

Pacino (in the movie) is just evil. He couldn't care less if what he sells is right for the customer....

You owe me a cadillac........ -helisell

You get the steak knives. Be happy you don't get third prize. -Ace Coldiron

Helisell what do you think is preventing these organizations from getting their existing sales staff to do it well? -SalesProfessor

I can tell you one thing straightaway... inertia. They don't want to learn to do it. They don't want to do the training. They might be just lazy, or they might be intimidated.

Cold calls are a lot like ice
Wouldn't do it for any price
Cold calls can make you shiver
Without a paddle and heading down river

I know this, those that do would not turn it over to someone else unless...

Qualified Sales Leads from within your industry.... I only have experience with Annuities here, but qualifying an annuitant who is cashing in a CD, having an annuity mature, having a pension distribution etc, have people talking to company sales people who need to get someone in front of them, and these are sold to agents. These cost cash money... several thousand up front and you are fed these deals always on the backside... and these can sometimes be a great source... but these are I think slightly different... here you have peers working, not someone doing it for you... it's someone who does it like you do.

Cold Calling means you break the ice. Some people think that if you can break the ice for me... thmbp2;

Aloha.... shds; ;bg -rattus58

To further my understanding of what it is you are saying let me ask, are you saying that sales people have the skills but don't want to work or are you saying that sales people don't have the skills and don't want to learn them or are you saying something entirely different? -SalesProfessor

Originally Posted by rattus58
I think when you say that cold calling and selling are the same, you ARE involved with the same skill sets, just a different point of route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattus58
I can tell you one thing straightaway... inertia. They don't want to learn to do it. They don't want to do the training. They might be just lazy, or they might be intimidated


Selling, IN MY OPINION, is selling. Cold calling requires sales skills ESPECIALLY IN MY INDUSTRY. I'm saying that sales people HAVE THE SKILLS but that they have for some reason chosen to not engage in the practice or have been brought into a selling practice that already includes leads.

My experience is with Life Insurance companies, with cemetary lot and funeral plans. Once I learned for myself how to call up someone on the phone and talk to them, I learned that I had to change, improve, keep trying to provide relevance... such as today...

"Hi SalesProfessor, my name is TomL. The reason for my call is I'd like to set an appointment with you to get your opinion on a voluntary employee benefit program we'd like to propose for you and your company.

These are benefits that they would choose, they would pay for and be responsible for, that they would have payroll deducted. We'd also like your input on the impact to your company our waiver of premiums in the event of layoff would have in todays environment.

Is there sometime later this morning or this afternoon available to us to discuss this?

Aloha.... shds; ;bg -rattus58

As it is written I wouldn't agree. I would instead suggest that the average B2C sales person does not have the skills required for successful cold calling. -SalesProfessor

Why not? Why don't they? Why do YOU think they don't have the skills? -rattus58

I don't know why they don't have the skills. You would have to ask them. -SalesProfessor

As it is written I wouldn't agree. I would instead suggest that the average B2C sales person does not have the skills required for successful cold calling.

How do you suggest a Sales person does not have the skills if you don't have an opinion why? -rattus58

Move on.

If the current argumentative dialog disrupts the harmony of this board, further posts to this thread along those lines will be deleted. -Ace Coldiron

Rattus58, please don't ask me to generalize why sales people do not possess cold calling skills. Why a particular sales person does or does not have a specific skill set is not a concern of mine. However, if it was a concern of mine I am quite certain that the 'why?' would be very specific to the individual in question.

If you don't mind me asking... earlier you wrote that "sales people HAVE THE SKILLS but that they have for some reason chosen to not engage in the practice." Cold calling skills (ie; Where to find prospects, triumphing over fear, effective openers, working with gatekeepers, etc.) are VERY specific skills... what in your experience would suggest that the average B2C sales person does possess such specific skills? -SalesProfessor

Sorry ... we're done.

Aloha.. -rattus58

I hope you haven't found any of my posts to be argumentative. I respect your viewpoint and would be open to reading more about it.

I find the topic of outsourcing prospecting to be very interesting and welcome different viewpoints especially those that may help me better understand what is going on in the minds of sales people.

If you don't mind me asking... Cold calling skills (ie; Where to find prospects, triumphing over fear, effective openers, working with gatekeepers, etc.) are VERY specific skills... have you come across anything in your travels that would suggest that the average B2C sales person possesses these specific skills? -SalesProfessor

By the way, if anyone else would like to post their own answer to my question about cold calling skills go ahead and speak up. Even if you don't agree. All responses are welcomed.

If my hunch is correct I believe Helisell is about to get an answer to his question - -SalesProfessor

I think the average salesperson does not have the skills/mindset/character for cold calling.

I think it takes a 'better-than-average' salesperson to be really good at this aspect....which means, working on the old 80-20 rule....80% of salespeople do not have the savvy.

This leaves a great big market for people to sell outsourcing of cold calling.

It takes a special person to be really good at cold calling.....

In a previous life I recruited over 30,000 (interviewed a LOT more than this) for a single company, to end up with 2,000 who had what-it-takes and could actually do the job of b2c face to face cold calling.

This was using very sophisticated recruitment/interviewing techniques and putting in a comprehensive training schedule.

We still managed to make a huge success of the operation but......it doesn't half give an insight into the 'average' salesperson. -helisell

Now that we have concluded that the average salesperson does not have the skills/mindset/character for cold calling let me ask, if I may, why is there a market for outsourcing just a single part of the sales process ...namely the 'prospecting/cold calling' part..if it is just another part of the sales process? -SalesProfessor

Who has concluded that the average salesperson does not have the skills/mindset/character for cold calling?

For the sake of ALL, opinions have been expressed. No more. No less. -Ace Coldiron

I was thinking that exact same thing.... :)

Aloha... :cool: -rattus58

Ace Coldiron and Rattus58 my post was directed at Helisell. It didn't appear that anyone else was participating in the discussion.

You are both most welcome to join the discussion. Please share your viewpoint. The question is... Cold calling skills (ie; Where to find prospects, triumphing over fear, effective openers, working with gatekeepers, etc.) are VERY specific skills... have you come across anything in your travels that would suggest that the average B2C sales person possesses these specific skills? -SalesProfessor

Well I have for one ;0)

(Yes I can also detect a bit of a pitch here too guys) -helisell

My travels have been far and wide in this selling game, and I can't remember ever using the phrase "average B2C sales person."

B2C is so diversified that such a phrase would have little meaning. How about you telling us what it's supposed to mean. For instance, are YOU an average B2C sales person in your opinion? That way we'll have an embryo of some sort of model to evaluate as to skills/mindset/character. -Ace Coldiron

1. B2C - "business to consumer".
2. Average - "an intermediate scale value regarded as normal or usual".

Put the two together and were a talking about a commonly encountered/normal/usual automotive, real estate, insurance, financial services, etc. sales person.

No, I do not view myself as an average B2C sales person.

Ace Coldiron have you come across anything in your travels that would suggest that a commonly encountered/normal/usual automotive, real estate, insurance, financial services, etc. sales person possesses these specific skills? -SalesProfessor

Who is pitching Helisell? -SalesProfessor

Yes, indeed I have.

You left out advertising, BTW.

In most cases, mere SURVIVAL in those fields depends on the specific skills we are addressing here (cold calling).

A minor exception might be automotive, although newcomers to that field would be well advised to develop cold calling skills if they currently lack them.

Thank you for the dictionary definition of "average". I'll use it more frequently now. I've posted elsewhere that top producers often produce inordinate results as compared to their peers. Call those peers average if you will, and let's allow for those that make up the attrition rate perhaps because they just can't cut it. I think we can eliminate them, because they end up not really with us. I would hate to think "average" means out of work. My reference to inordinacy I think parallels helisell's reference to the 80/20 "rule".

I want to be fairly thorough here, and ask a question of you, SalesProfessor. Average salesperson is still a salesperson, won't you agree? So that person would have selling skills. If cold calling skills were part of selling, it would be a flawed assumption to state that those skills were largely lacking or nonexistent. UNLESS...one was operating on the premise that cold calling is NOT selling.

Another member, now departed, named Seth, posted a viewpoint that cold calling is not selling. It sparked much discussion. Just so we know a little bit more of your leanings, please tell us---DO you agree with the aforementioned Seth on that point?

If you do, we might have an oil and water situation to overcome in these discussions.

Look up syllogism while you're at it. -Ace Coldiron

Yes, everyday, especially since ALL of those that are part of our normal associations do these chores themselves.

Aloha.... :cool: -rattus58

Oh, was I supposed to list ALL B2C industries? I wasn't aware.

I do not kid myself into believing that the average sales person possesses cold calling skills merely because they are a salesperson and have selling skills. Are you asking me this because you don't know? I get that because of the assumption that you put forward.

I view cold calling as a sales activity. -SalesProfessor

Your use of the word "chores" is revealing. -SalesProfessor

Some 'sales' positions are more difficult than others.
Some 'sales' positions pay more than others.
Generally the 'sales' positions that take more skill pay more money.

All of these jobs are done by what we call 'salespeople' but clearly thay are not all doing the same job?

So let's see here....I meet a guy at a party say....he tells me he is in 'sales'. Turns out he works in a mens clothing store where he 'sells' stuff. I think great .. a 'salesman' I recruit him...put him into a cold calling situation...he dies a 1000 deaths.

So I maintain that 80% of the folks we call 'salespeople'....simply 'aint ....well not by the standards I demand.

I just wanted to clear up the point. Most people who get recruited into the high paying, difficult, lots of cold calling type sales jobs...don't make the grade. About 80% of them in my experience. -helisell

I don't believe you.

I don't believe that at all. If you get "that" then you have just given me a more complete answer to the question I asked about whether you consider yourself an average salesperson. I don't think at this point that you fall in the lesser category of serially bewildered--at least I prefer not to think that when I consider the amount of posting you're doing here, SalesProfessor.

So lets not twist statements. It doesn't take a genius to know that some average salespeople will have cold calling skills and some will not. BEING AN AVERAGE SALESPERSON DOES NOT PRECLUDE COLD CALLING SKILLS.

So please--finally enlighten us. Are you selling cold call outsourcing? What is your agenda with these points you seem desparate in trying to make. -Ace Coldiron

That may well be true. Do we know what the number of sales people really is as a number who originally apply? Most of the salespeople I know are survivors. Is that survival rate more than 20%?

Those of us that make it in sales I think are equipped to handle all aspects of our jobs, and if that means making calls you do that. Most of us in the sales profession are constantly training, learning, reading, taping, practicing, or otherwise improving ourselves. This is what separates us from those who choose other professions, that is the dedication to the "sport".

By the way, some of my clients who are in sales, and make a damn good living at it, sell beer, pototo chips, and rubber slippers.... :)

Aloha.... :cool: -rattus58

That is your choice. You wrote, To me that shows a lack of understanding. No disrespect intended.

If you are under the impression that I view myself as bewildered, below average or even average in skill level then you have somehow gone astray.

I didn't read where anyone wrote that.

Am I selling cold call outsourcing? That's a reach! No I am not selling cold call outsourcing nor would I recommend it. Where do you come up with this stuff? :dun -SalesProfessor

I want some of those rubber slippers.

Many times in my career I have felt afraid, tearful, lonely, despairing, inadequate, feeble.

Didn't give in though. Studied , worked hard, made all the mistakes, read the books, took the flak, felt the failures.

Rattus....'survivor' does it for me. I love all salespeople...but especially survivors. -helisell

Rattus58, I don't know what sales people are like on that island you live on but in my vast experience, and I do mean vast, your statement could not be any farther from the truth. -SalesProfessor

You just might be vastly experiencing the wrong crowd, SalesProfessor. -Ace Coldiron

People believe what they want to believe. I get that. If the two of you want to believe that "Most of us in the sales profession are constantly training, learning, reading, taping, practicing, or otherwise improving ourselves." or anything else for that matter go for it. Your beliefs are not my concern.

Aloha! sn; -SalesProfessor

:) Aint quite anything as comfortable as an old pair of shoes I was once told....

Aloha... thmbp2; -rattus58

This thread appears to have ran its course. I am going to close it down. -Jeff Blackwell