Closing: Which statement do you to believe to be more accurate?

Which statement do you agree with more?

The more closes you know, the better closer you are.

The more closes you use, the better closer you are. -Ace Coldiron

No matter what you do in life, the more you do something the more you benefit.

When you make a lot of calls, you become more adept at fielding the curves. When you sell more I think you tend to "use what works" and the more use what works the more fluid you become... and I think fluid and seamless is what we strive for.

Aloha....shds; ;bg -rattus58

I like that.

Would you be willing to engage in further discussion on this topic? Knowing you I think you would.

So here's an honest question for you.
Do you believe that "fluid and seamless" could also reinforce the thought of someone who took the opposite choice in the poll? -Ace Coldiron

Ok... getting a little deep for me here but let me assume what you meant here by "So here's an honest question for you.

Do you believe that "fluid and seamless" could also reinforce the thought of someone who took the opposite choice in the poll?"

Fluid and seamless is what I strive for. That is why I do the sales manner that I do. For one thing, I'm not a fast thinker, so I tend to not get into the white water....

I'm a pilot by training. I taught flying for the love of it. I was very good at it, and have the distinction of NEVER having a failure. One of the reasons I was successful at that was that I was admonished by a Vietnam Bomber pilot onetime who had me in a power-on single engine stall in a twin commanche, and as we rotated through inverted... he said something I've never forgotten... "Tommy... this is fun isn't it... don't ever stop having it and don't forget the rudder!"

In MY PERSPECTIVE, the basics are your survival. Know the fundamentals, practice the fundamentals, over and over. As technology changes, the fundamentals may morph somewhat, we have V6's and V12's powering cars today, but they still have 4 wheels made of rubber. Airplanes have glass panels and fly by wire controls, but they still have recognizable structure. Sales TO ME, follows that same pattern.

For me, knowing other sales practices expands your knowledge base and perspectives. Trying out different close techniques all the time won't make me any more money. In fact for ME, could cost money if I am not well versed with it. For some, having a large menu selection is appropriate. They have quick minds, expansive memory chips, and almost photographic memory... That unfortunately doesn't describe little tommy here.

Understanding sales FOR ME is understanding the flow of things. I have to maneuver myself or my client into defined chum channels before I start casting bait. One has to be willing to ask someone to buy, however, and have a good reason for asking. That FOR ME comes with comfort, and comfort comes with process, which with practice begets action.

A good landing is almost always assured coming from a good/stable approach. A safe landing can still be made from a turbulent approach, but it's rarely pretty. I view MY SALES PRACTICES the same way.

I don't know if I even came close to answering the question... I sorta just went off here... did I make sense with this?

Aloha... Tom :cool: -rattus58

Yeah..sure...you're not deep.

I DO understand the analogy, and I'll provide my own when I have more time. Great post. But..understand..we're still talking "closing"--that particular aspect. -Ace Coldiron

Maybe I've missed your point and I can't agree with this.

Just because you are practicing something doesn't mean you are practicing it the right way. -MrCharisma

I agree.... You've missed the point.

I'm not a psychoanalyst, so I didn't take short view. You train one to fly, you practice landings. You teach one to drive, you practice parking. You teach one to shoot, you practice shooting. You sell, you practice closes and the more you practice the better you become, except you believe we'd be practiciing the wrong stuff. Well I could agree with you, but I'm not going to. I could say that you're right, if you practice the wrong thing, you'll never get it right, but I'm not going to. I'm sorry. I disagree with your premise, not because you're wrong and I'm right, I disagree with you because I'm not accepting the premise you're offering.

Much Aloha... shds; ;bg -rattus58

I just typed up a giant post but facebook caused my browser to have a heart attack.

I think someone who is good at sales doesn't put emphasis on closing but rather building rapport, asking discovery questions and recommending the best product for the customer. When you put too much pressure on the close, you'll often find the sale will fall apart at the end and you rely on your offer rather then your sales skills.

I don't agree with either statement because you might know closes but you can't execute them. You might use closes but you use them too soon and ignore the customers buying signals. -MrCharisma

Mr. Charisma, which statement in the poll do you believe to be more accurate? -Ace Coldiron

Where is the third option Ace :p -MrCharisma

The third option exists alongside countless other options all outside of the context of this poll/thread.

With the inclusion of the words, "believe" and "more", I think the context was clear.

Abstain is acceptable. -Ace Coldiron

If you have to pick one it's B "the more you use" but we all know it's not about closing ...it's about Opening! Now let's get back to opening & prospecting! -Dave Tear

Well said MrCharisma. thmbp2;

Your post reveals the truth. I was going to respond with a question asking which statement do you believe to be more accurate about Superman wrestling the Hulk but I wasn't sure everyone would "get it". ;sm -SalesProfessor

Would you have to agree with either statement to say which you believe is more accurate?

I don't ask that rhetorically because I don't like rhetorical questions.

In other words, is one statement, in your opinion and experience, closer to the what you believe to be true on the subject? -Ace Coldiron

Those that read comic books and watch wrestling on TV would probably get it.

Those that respond only with questions are either sages, or people that don't want to risk offering a direct opinion. -Ace Coldiron

No, I wouldn't agree with either... which is why I stopped commenting and chose the third option 'Abstinence'.

Perhaps if more detail were placed in the statements or put into context.

I don't agree with it because I don't agree with placing focus on closing. A good sales person doesn't have tricks and closes which lure the customer into signing, a good sales person (as I've previously mentioned) has good rapport building lines which they might use to stimulate a connection or mutual understanding. As my signature says, "in the absence of rapport we have nothing."

The way I perceive your context of a close, is a trick or magical lines which get your customer to sign for whatever you sell. -MrCharisma

Wow. Your perception of my context of a close has no evidence to support it on this site or on my blog. I think you're grouping others who might post different views than your own.

In my own case, I have more than once defined "closing" as a progression of consent. Wherever you see tricks or magical lines from that could only exist in your own mind.

You probably have some good education from the venues you shared, but it does not give license to "perceive" others without evidence to support it.

You're young and still learning. I'm older and still learning. A negative and unfounded attitude towards others in this profession will thwart the best of educations you receive. -Ace Coldiron

Yet your options have no clarity on truely what you mean.

Seeing as you've made a point that you're older, you'd probably understand 1st and 2nd position. This entire thread you've taken only 1st Position, looking through your own opinion while if you took 2nd Position would see your options are up for intrepretation.

My previous experience has shown a proportion of sales people use 'one liners' to close their customers. Is this reality? No it's not, though it's my perception and interpretation which has lead me to this understanding.

I find it disturbing and highly discourgaing that you would give me negative reputation because I didn't agree with your own opinon. I've come to this forum to not only share an opinion but also learn from others. People like Skip are a credit to this forum and I thought you Ace were ok too, until you decided to attack my opinion rather then nurture a young sales educator who doesn't posess the live experiences someone like yourself have.

No doubt you'll probably again give me negative feedback... but hey, that's your right. Just like it's my right to give an opinion on an open forum (with some also have agreed with me). -MrCharisma

How do you know Ace gave you the negative reputation? I've been recently receiving negative reputations on just about every post.

Everything I post is Opinion... or the preponderance of it anyway is, but that is because I am not availed myself of any empiracle data. I can say what I want because I can. My opinions are mine. I make them. Yours are Yours.

I bitch here more than I should, but that's because I'm spoiled. You are a trainer, I'm a trainee. I'm a whiner. You should be the trainer you are. I KNOW that some of your trainees bitch at you too... but so what... if they want to succeed, they'll listen to what you say.

Aloha... Tom shds; ;bg -rattus58

That I can't be sure of, but the comment left was "Unfounded criticism" which was made at 8:30am, 2 minutes after he posted a grilling towards me.

Call it coincidence but it isn't my gripe... my gripe is the unconstructive response where I was told I didn't have a licence to have an opinion.

You have a lot of valid points Rattus and I'd be lying if I said I didn't take notice of your posts around the forum and see your opinion.
-MrCharisma

We all have opinions and we are ALL ENTITLED to them. We all have license to them too. You were not here about the time I joined. It was pretty funny... or it is now... but I didn't ingratiate myself very well here and Ace provided one of the most eloquent FLAMINGS I've ever witnessed via any medium... never mind it was directed at me... it was one of the most exquisite deliveries of passion I've experienced. Whatever the disagreements you share, you are on quite solid ground with Ace... thmbp2;

The point of all this, is that both you and Ace have insights that should be debated... Debate is not criticism. Let the little of us be critical while you and Ace or Gold or the many other knowledgable here "debate"... and share ideas.

Much Aloha... Tom shds; ;bg -rattus58

... and that's exactly what I want. Debate and share smart ideas.

Now I need to get back to creating my regional meeting. thmbdn2; Gosh darn sales reps need to be taught in this weeks session to be clear with their paperwork. -MrCharisma

Tom, I appreciate your words.

I did not this conceive this thread for debate as much as survey.

Charisma obviously didn't feel comfortable with the context. But to draw from that a perception about my views that was diametrically opposed to everything I have ever posted with regard to how I view closing was irresponsible and mean spirited, in my opinion. He seems to be grouping people in a negative category, and it just might reveal a disdain for selling in general. Rather than apologize, he now indulges in self righteous whining.

The old saw about a little bit of knowledge is dangerous has reared its ugly head. Let him go out and make a few sales and win the trust, respect, repeat business, and personal referrals, and friendships, I have won among my clients before he passes premature judgement sans evidence with such haste.

Incidentally, I did not dispute a licence to have an opinion--another malicious false accusation on his part. I disputed his false and hasty portrayal of my stance on the subject of closing as "is a trick or magical lines which get your customer to sign for whatever you sell.."

There is NOTHING on this site nor on my blog that would ever substantiate that vicious accusation.

I'll take license to be offended. -Ace Coldiron

What context, there was no context placed from the initial post.

When you leave a blank canvas and don't give clear indications of what you want, your artist will use past experiences and his own thought process to create his piece.

I believe we both need to get on from this before it devolges any further. You seem to still be in attack mode since I haven't 'apologised' (for what exactly I don't really know...). -MrCharisma

Charisma, I've traded barbs with people on this forum, and discussions get heated, but this is the first time anyone has made me genuinely angry here which is a very rare emotion for me.

Apologize for WHAT??

Are you kidding? An unfounded remark about me such as ""is a trick or magical lines which get your customer to sign for whatever you sell.." is nothing short of an attempt at character assassination. -Ace Coldiron

Your emphasis on closing in this uncontextual poll has lead me to believe that the angle you are taking is of a traditional mannor. Focused on selling, looking only though the sales persons perspective, creating a spiel, proecdural and outcome based on making a sale. Using lines is not my thing... just because you know or use lines doesn't make you a good sales person.

A good sales person is focused on why the consumer would buy my product, looks at things from a customers perspective, promoting his producing through conversing (rather then spieling), has an adapative presentation (which still has structure) and has an outcome of creating a satisfied buyer.

A Satisfied Buyer will close themselves... they will go from a browsing state into a buying state using information pitched 'based on what they've told you'. Instead of using a close, customers will signal their product interest instead by asking leading questions then all you might need to do is say "to organise it, I'll start with your first name".

By knowing how to say "to organise it, I'll start with your first name", does that make me a better sales person, No. Ace, I won't be apologising if you are waiting for that... but I can assure you, everytime I log on I'm getting 1-2 additions to my reputation. Am I gloating, I hope not... but am I getting support from others, it seems to be.

Let's end it now. I live in Australia, it's not like we can go out to the school yard and start swinging. -MrCharisma

Charisma, if you get a thousand points of support for a negative assertion you made about another member here that is contrary to just about all that person has posted about the subject of closing, you are merely being egged onto the wrong path. It happens so often.

You've lost an opportunity to get on a much better path which would have needed only an apology. The sad part is it's something you probably can't do.

It is strange, because your view of closing is so congruent with mine, and people who know me here, and have become not only friends, but in some cases very close friends, must be smiling.

Yeah, it's ended. -Ace Coldiron

Well I was only ever taught ONE close and that is the one I've always used. -helisell

So you're saying that its workin then.....sn;

Aloha.... shds; ;bg -rattus58

Oh yes indeed.

I think there is a problem with certain definitions (or lack of definitions) since 'closing' is a very simple concept.

Resistance handling, overcoming/answering objections, negotiating often seem to get confused with 'closing' and
this leads to all kinds of confusion.

And confusion in sales, as we all know, is a no no.

These concepts are better shown as a flow chart, since the logic behind the process is immediately apparent. To give an idea...part of the flow chart (this is not in context by nature of this medium of words only but let me try anyway)

Where was I?

Oh yes...part of the flow chart goes.

Close. (Ask if we can go ahead....this may be 'can we go ahead and do the deal?' but is more often....'Is it OK to move on?')

Objection/Reason for No/Think about it (or whatever)

Handle the situation.

Go back to Close (on that particular point)

Looking back at this I'm not sure I have expressed it clearly enough but .....I had a go! -helisell

I pretty much agree with that concept of a close or that a close for us is a validation of a series of minor or possibly even major agreements tieing our discussion and exploration with our products or services.

Much Aloha.... shds; ;bg -rattus58

I agree... I vote for neither... I vote for ABC... always be closing. I think one has to build up to the close so that the actual closing is natural consequence of the whole process. -Andrea

Well Mr. Charisma if that is all you've got (charisma) then you would have to believe that (your quote) wouldn't you?

I'm not dissing you I mean you've got a powerful trait and you gotta use it. However good sales do not hinge on just one quality/trait/attribute/skill etc. Ultimately good salespeople are results driven and people have to use whatever talents/tools/skills they have in order to get those results.

Building rapport is one step in the process as is closing... but there are other steps that have to be well executed in order to achieve success. -Andrea

As sales people I believe we are all charismatic to some degree. My username is a name I've had online since I was 15/16 and is a referal to a song by Australian punk band Frenzal Rhomb named Mr Charisma. The lyrics can be found here.


While I appreciate you may not have read every comment in this thread, I believe you could have missed my point and I'm sorry for not making that clearer.

My perception of this thread was emphasis on closing and in my personal belief I see many things more important then your ability to close.

(Attitude) Having a useful attitude, maintaining your attitude throught the entire presentation/day, understanding your identity is not based off your results, being able to create positive behaviours and interupt negative movies you play to yourself, (Rapport) Creating a mutal understanding or agreement, matching and mirroring, pacing and leading, (Discovery) uncovering what is important to your customer, find out are they attempting to gain pleasure or avoid pain, creating value within their perception... my list goes on and on.

The point I'm trying to make is there are sooooooo many things you need to work on before you attempt to close the sale. To me the close is the final encounter where you ask for the business, not the lead up prior. -MrCharisma

I more or less agree with you however I was referring to your signature line. I don't agree with it as per my original post. I don't think that if you don't have rappour you don't have nothing. Generally I don't like all or nothing statements.

Also, you think that the close is the final encounter and sure that could be it if you play it that way. You can also play it differently so that you close them each step of the way and then the closing is not a final encounter but just a natural consequence of the process (did I mention this before?) thmbp2; -Andrea

Generally, people who view closing as an event, or a continuum, will be outsold by people who view closing as a progression.

One might say that there are certainly other factors present to effect that distinction, but the fact that the latter category holds that advanced view would probably mean that the other factors are well covered. -Ace Coldiron