Home > Negotiation > Negotiation, sales and need

Negotiation, sales and need

We have had several threads discussing NEGOTIATION. I have to admit that I'm personally not relating well to negotiaton and sales as processes with pretty much parallel similiarities.

I've seen it said that people will not buy from us for essentially 5 base reasons. They are;
No Need
No Money
No Hurry
No Desire
No Trust

At the top of this box on Negotiation, it is blazoned "Negotiation - Negotiation aims to resolve concerns and/or settle the terms of a deal."

If the reasons for not buying are no need, no money, no hurry, no desire or no trust, they would be saying that these are alternatively the foundations of the sale. This is being really SIMPLISTIC, but humor me for a minute.

Back to negotiation. When I've thought of negotiation, I've always considered it the END OF THE PROCESS, not the process itself. So... from the lily pond...

No Need - How do you "negotiate" no need?
No Money - Negotiable in my mind
No Hurry - How do you "negotiate" no hurry?
No Desire - How do you "negotiate" no desire?
No Trust - How do you "negotiate" no trust? More on this in a minute.

When I think of the terms I've seen of Negotiation, I find it hard relate the terms to the basics of the process, and in this SIMPLISTIC example, don't we have to explore with the client the need for our product or service? Don't we have to define WHEN our client needs our product or service? Desire... Do we NEGOTIATE or does the client DEVELOP Desire?

TRUST.... This is not negotiated. Trust is developed or imparted. We the salesperson will be trusted or we won't. Trust may not be required for some sales, but it will be required probably for most. In my case, I'm convinced that without it, there is NO SALE. There is a lot that goes into trust. Be honest. Be prompt. Be PREPARED. I don't know if being EMPATHETIC means anything to trust, but you must working WITH your client to develop trust. I don't think this can be "negotiated".

So, is a sale negotiated as a process, or is the sales process culminated by negotiating your final agreement? My argument is the latter, but I'm open to suggestion... :)

Much Aloha... Tom :cool: - by rattus58
If you come in with The Proposition, without which all selling processes are merely empty, then "negotation" simply takes the form of "modification". Modify the terms, modify the offer, modify the quantity, etc.--all to reach accord and closure. - by Ace Coldiron
If you come in with The Proposition, without which all selling processes are merely empty, then "negotation" simply takes the form of "modification". Modify the terms, modify the offer, modify the quantity, etc.--all to reach accord and closure.
I agree, but how many sales can you start with your proposition? How many sales do come in with where you are able to simply modify terms? In my opinion, very few, if you don't have the rest of it out of the way first. Coming in with a propositon without a declared need, doesn't leave much to "negotiate or modify".

For example... If I sell bathtubs, how do I come to Ace and say, modify color, arrangement and price, till I know you have a home? How do I come to Ace and suggest a bathtub till we have established a need?

If I come to Ace and say, Ace, my name is tom and I sell bathroom furnishings. The reason I stopped by is I'd like to discuss a new style bathroom with you. Is this negotiating or selling? I'm of the opinion that we are not entering the negotiating stage till you indicate at least interest, need, or desire.

Much Aloha... :cool: - by rattus58
I agree, but how many sales can you start with your proposition? How many sales do come in with where you are able to simply modify terms? In my opinion, very few, if you don't have the rest of it out of the way first. Coming in with a propositon without a declared need, doesn't leave much to "negotiate or modify".

For example... If I sell bathtubs, how do I come to Ace and say, modify color, arrangement and price, till I know you have a home? How do I come to Ace and suggest a bathtub till we have established a need?

If I come to Ace and say, Ace, my name is tom and I sell bathroom furnishings. The reason I stopped by is I'd like to discuss a new style bathroom with you. Is this negotiating or selling? I'm of the opinion that we are not entering the negotiating stage till you indicate at least interest, need, or desire.

Much Aloha... :cool:
Bad example. Bathroom renovation salespeople deal with people who have declared an interest in bathroom renovation. The approach in that case isn't about finding a prospect. You already have one. So you need the proposition--a solid attractive offer in your bag. Just showing up isn't enough. You've got to have something to SELL. A differentiator of interest.

With that offer out of the bag and on the table, modifications can take place on a give and take basis which is negotiation.

"The style looks great on you. Would you consider it in black? I have a helluva deal for you if you can--and it's in your size. $179.00. That's fifty bucks off if you can use it. Try it on."

"Will you alter the sleeves at no charge?"

"Can you wait three days?"

"Don't need it for a week."

"I'll write it up." - by Ace Coldiron
My job as a salesperson is to get the customer to commit on SOME basis....and then I attempt to negotiate to an acceptable position for both parties.

Until this happens there can be no negotiation (by definition...what's to negotiate??)

Once I have committment from the customer on SOME basis (usually unnacceptable to at least one of the parties....USUALLY me ;0))

I am now in a position to 'negotiate' to the point where it becomes acceptable to both parties.

So all becomes clear Rattus.

You are quite right.

No need? So how can we negotiate? We can't.

Because if they have no need then they will not commit and therefore...no negotiation.

Same goes for No Money, Hurry, Desire and Trust. - by helisell
Sorry Ace your post just appeared whilst I was typing.

You just read my mind.

You get them to commit.....then you negotiate.

'Can you wait three days....?' (If I...will you)
Perfect example of commitment followed by negotiation.

Are we good at this stuff or what....? - by helisell
Are we good at this stuff or what....?
World class. God dished out my incompetencies in OTHER areas. :in - by Ace Coldiron
Bad example. Bathroom renovation salespeople deal with people who have declared an interest in bathroom renovation. The approach in that case isn't about finding a prospect. You already have one. So you need the proposition--a solid attractive offer in your bag. Just showing up isn't enough. You've got to have something to SELL. A differentiator of interest.

With that offer out of the bag and on the table, modifications can take place on a give and take basis which is negotiation.

"The style looks great on you. Would you consider it in black? I have a helluva deal for you if you can--and it's in your size. $179.00. That's fifty bucks off if you can use it. Try it on."

"Will you alter the sleeves at no charge?"

"Can you wait three days?"

"Don't need it for a week."

"I'll write it up."
Ok.... Ace.... I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree that negotiation starts with the proposition. Since that is so, we agree. It has been proposed by some that negotiation seemingly is little different than the sales process. Consequently, my example was actually an appropriate one, because you cannot just start with a negotiation.

Aloha.... Tom.....shds; ;bg - by rattus58
Post deleted.... forgot to read what I was responding to

Aloha.... :cool: - by rattus58
Wish he'd dished you out a few more.......then he wouldn't have had so many left to give to me ! - by helisell
Wish he'd dished you out a few more.......then he wouldn't have had so many left to give to me !
Good morning.. well lessee.... it's like 3:30 PM or thereabouts it seems at your place... you're heading into happy hour, I just fed my cats... an lookin fer coffee... :)

Aloha... :cool: - by rattus58
Here's an illustrative little story, borrowed from an interesting personality:-


".. I was married and struggling to earn a living in
sales while attending college at night. It was a tough
product line - automatic swimming pool chlorination systems.

It was a new technology at the time, and rather than spend a
fortune on TV commercials the company had decided to test
the market through door-to-door sales and interviews, so
they could learn the details of what prospective customers
needed to hear before they would buy.

The company offered a large commission for this task, since
it required a complicated presentation with a low percentage
of expected sales.

That meant I had to call on houses in upscale neighborhoods,
where most houses had swimming pools.

And since a sale of this system involved a contract for over
a thousand dollars I had to call in the evening, when both
husband and wife were likely to be home.

So I interrupted a lot of dinners. And had the door slammed
in my face a lot.

My sales were almost nonexistent, and I was in danger of
losing my job.

Fortunately, the company wasn’t ready to just fire me
without trying a little training to see if I could be
salvaged. So they paired me with an older very experienced
salesman, a guy named Harry Clifton.

I’ll never forget the first night we spent together.

“Meet me in your neighborhood at 6:30 P.M.” Harry told me.

“Wait, that’s the dinner hour,” I said, “We can’t go door to
door then.”

“Look, who’s doing the training, you or me?” He said with a
growl.

So, we met when and where he said, me being convinced that
he was going to get us killed at the first house we
approached.

Fine with me, I thought. I’ve been through this for three
weeks. Now they’ll understand that this is an impossible
assignment.

We went up to the first door. Harry peeked into the window
and then called me up to the porch. I looked in and saw the
family sitting down to dinner.

“Watch this”, he said.

He knocked. Then knocked again. I heard low voices, a chair
scrape the floor, and footsteps approaching the front door.
It swung open revealing a man with a napkin in his hand. The
guy didn’t look happy to see us.

Before he got a word out, Harry looked around him and said,
“Oh, geez, I didn’t mean to interrupt your dinner. Look,
I’ve just got some information for you on how you can make
sure that none of your kid’s friends ever gets an ear
infection from swimming in your pool, but I won’t take your
time now. When will you be finished with dinner? I’ll come
back then.”

The man in the house smiled at Harry’s apology and listened
to his explanation, then told us they would be done in half
an hour.

“Dang, I have an appointment then. How about an hour and a
half from now? That’ll be at 8:00 PM. And I’ll have a gift
for your wife when I come back.”

I was in a daze as I watched this negotiation. Harry took
out his appointment book and wrote it down, then shook the
homeowner’s outstretched hand, apologized again for
interrupting dinner, and we walked back down the walkway.

We went to the next house, and the next. I noticed that
Harry skipped any houses where they weren’t eating dinner.

“You see, we WANT to interrupt their dinners. That gives me
a chance to apologize, and then to explain why I want to
talk with them. And you notice that I talked ONLY IN TERMS
THAT WOULD INTEREST THEM. Now they’ll be waiting when we
come back.”

I noticed that during the week I trained with Harry, we
NEVER went to a house that wasn’t already expecting us to
tell them how to protect their kids’ friends from getting
ear infections from their pools.

We sold more than anyone in that company’s local office that
week.."

Tom Hoobyar, 'The StreetSmart CEO'
(check him out!)

---


When we communicate with people, in everyday situations, we are often negotiating with them - unless you are in the business of issuing orders or coercing people.

Negotiation isn't simply what happens in a neatly defined little segment at the end of a transaction. It is an all-pervading process. We engage in this process continually. Whether we recognise it or not, our negotiation skills are always at work, and hopefully working hard for us.

We negotiate with our family, with our friends, with our bosses and those who work for us, and with our customers and prospects. - by ThirdForceNegotiator
This is a great example of negotion. It is clear and concise illustration. However, I don't see this as "sales". I see them interspersed. For example... using your great little story...
Blue = sales
Purple= negotiation

Before he got a word out, Harry looked around him and said,
“Oh, geez, I didn’t mean to interrupt your dinner. Look,
I’ve just got some information for you on how you can make
sure that none of your kid’s friends ever gets an ear
infection from swimming in your pool,
but I won’t take your
time now. When will you be finished with dinner? I’ll come
back then.”


How was the trip?

Aloha... :cool:
- by rattus58
Negotiation isn't simply what happens in a neatly defined little segment at the end of a transaction. It is an all-pervading process. We engage in this process continually. Whether we recognise it or not, our negotiation skills are always at work, and hopefully working hard for us.
I couldn't agree more. We negotiate any time we get together with another party (or parties) to make any sort of a decision. In other words, we are in fact negotiating and selling in parallel processes (as was refuted in the first post).

You're never moving the sale forward without their interaction and agreement to do so. Since you need their consent, you're negotiating for it. If there's no need, $, hurry, trust or ??? (sorry, I forgot the 5th), you're NEGOTIATING for them. The goal is to convince someone of the merits of your product and service. This is all negotiation.

Many confuse the haggle at the end as the negotiation and they couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, the better we are as negotiators on the front end and throughout the entire process, the less haggling we have to deal with at the end.

Stephen - by sfrenkel
This is a great example of negotion. It is clear and concise illustration. However, I don't see this as "sales". I see them interspersed. For example... using your great little story...
Blue = sales
Purple= negotiation

Before he got a word out, Harry looked around him and said,
“Oh, geez, I didn’t mean to interrupt your dinner. Look,
I’ve just got some information for you on how you can make
sure that none of your kid’s friends ever gets an ear
infection from swimming in your pool,
but I won’t take your
time now. When will you be finished with dinner? I’ll come
back then.”


I'd suggest taking this up with Tom Hoobyar, not with me.

He thought he was witnessing a negotiation.

I know where I stand on matters and how I perceive them. From our brief exchanges within this nifty little forum I believe you're in a very different place - which you're more than welcome to; just please don't be sad about it. - by ThirdForceNegotiator
I couldn't agree more. We negotiate any time we get together with another party (or parties) to make any sort of a decision. In other words, we are in fact negotiating and selling in parallel processes (as was refuted in the first post).

You're never moving the sale forward without their interaction and agreement to do so. Since you need their consent, you're negotiating for it. If there's no need, $, hurry, trust or ??? (sorry, I forgot the 5th), you're NEGOTIATING for them. The goal is to convince someone of the merits of your product and service. This is all negotiation.

Many confuse the haggle at the end as the negotiation and they couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, the better we are as negotiators on the front end and throughout the entire process, the less haggling we have to deal with at the end.

Stephen
Thank you Stephen

I feel you've nicely clarified one of the misunderstandings we've had going on. - by ThirdForceNegotiator
I'd suggest taking this up with Tom Hoobyar, not with me.

He thought he was witnessing a negotiation.

I know where I stand on matters and how I perceive them. From our brief exchanges within this nifty little forum I believe you're in a very different place - which you're more than welcome to; just please don't be sad about it.
What I'd like from you, and not from anyone else, Tom Hoobyar or otherwise, is a SHORT response to the question of negotiation. I tried to clearly present my interpretation of the question of negotion versus sales. So far you have not CLEARLY answered to MY satisfaction the difference between selling and negotiation as YOU see it.

In YOUR opinion is there a difference between selling and negotiation?

Aloha.... :cool: - by rattus58
What I'd like from you, and not from anyone else, Tom Hoobyar or otherwise, is a SHORT response to the question of negotiation. I tried to clearly present my interpretation of the question of negotion versus sales. So far you have not CLEARLY answered to MY satisfaction the difference between selling and negotiation as YOU see it.

In YOUR opinion is there a difference between selling and negotiation?

Aloha.... :cool:
Yes.

(that is my shortest possible reply) - by ThirdForceNegotiator
Yes.

(that is my shortest possible reply)
sn; Well it makes things an awful lot clearer... because I believe that there is a difference too.

Much Aloha... :) - by rattus58
For me, when the prospect and sales rep enter the same linguistic environment, the negotiation process begins. Without speaking (face to face), the propositional structure begins to generate its holistic form.

While I assume a prospect will usually say he or she has no; money, need, time, desire or trust, I also begin with setting the closing foundation. That is because; I know he or she has the money; I will convince him or her that need and or desire is present and; demonstrate trust; for which he or she will find plenty of time.

Now, if I truly believed my prospect did not have these basic elements, I would consider that person disqualified and not even begin.

1 Everyone has the money, the issue is in their choice of dispersement.

2 The only way someone would know he or she is not interested in what you have for sale, is by first knowing what is being turned down. As you inform the prospect you are creating the opportunity for that person to see a reflection of themselves in the linguistic hologram you are producing.

3 Once the reflection is in place the desire, need and trust are usually automatically established.

4 Finally, everyone will make the time to expand and empower self-expression.

I hope there is something here that can be useful. - by John Voris
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