Do you use rebuttals to change minds?

If so, how do you avoid conflict with the idea of consumer choice? -Wonderboy

If the consumer is working from innacurate information I would rebutt that information and I don't think that would conflict with the idea of consumer choice. Would you? -Houston

Why would it be a conflict? :dun -Thomas

;sm Thomas,

When you're trying to change someone's mind with a rebuttal(s), you're in effect arguing with that person and as the saying goes, when you argue with a prospect, you lose.

A far better strategy is to build the sales concept into your presentation and use it before the customer gets to a decision, otherwise you're hanging yourself out on a limb (one of the big reasons for a return with products that carry a moneyback guarantee). -Wonderboy

IMO, this is the proper way to deal with common questions and concerns.

If the prospect has taken a stand on an issue you'll want to be very selective in your rebuttal. You don't want to get into an argument or spitting contest. -AZBroker

Great Friday to all, sn;

Language is so powerful that it could move mountains (metaphorically speaking).
As sales(persons) we must be mindful of the non-verbal and verbal language we think or speak. For instance, in this Q&A alone, I saw the words, rebuttal, argument, spitting contest, lose and conflict, all negative connotations. As (sales)persons, we must make a mental and physical effort to use positive words/expressions such as; let’s agree to disagree, I can appreciate your way of thinking, may I recommend/suggest. What are some other words/phrases you can share between salesperson and customer that are positive and leaves the door open to conclude in a sale if not today than tomorrow? It’s all about mental choice. thmbp2; -job ready strategist

define rebuttal for me please, because I guess my opinion of what a rebuttal is, is different than what everyone else thinks.

Pat -toolguy_35

This comes from the online dictionary:

"to contradict or oppose by formal legal argument, plea, or countervailing proof"

The main idea in rebutting is to change someone's mind. But you're disrespecting consumer choice when you're doing that. And besides, whatever your intention, you're often regarded as looking out for your own benefit rather than the prospect's when you're in that situation which is why I've made my suggestion earlier. -Wonderboy

When do you believe a rebuttal is not disrespecting consumer choice and when do you believe a rebuttal is the right thing to do? -Calvin

When you give all the relevant information in your presentation to the prospect, there's nothing more. This is the essence of the consumer always being right. -Wonderboy

The best presentations can't cover all the potentials. Also, I believe the salesperson has a responsibility to protect the interests of the client. If the client is about to metaphorically walk off a cliff because he believes he is "right" the salesperson has an obligation to act which could include trying to change the prospects mind. -Calvin

I presume that you qualify your prospect before you close the deal.

I've had a situation where a customer was considering about changing his decision to go forward after he first called in to cancel his account ( by the way I've never said he couldn't cancel his account) so I reminded him what he said when he first called in and he then changed his mind again and then said he wanted to replace a defective model with another one.

I was new at this job so I doublechecked with a coworker and found out that the model the customer wanted to change to was
older than the one he wanted to get rid of and has less ports on the back of it. So I doublechecked to make sure he knew that the other model he wanted to switch to was less desirable (because of the fewer ports) and he repeated that's what he wanted.

Calvin, if this customer had stated definitely that he wasn't interested, that would have been the end of the line. Instead he indicated he was only considering cancelling the account (and I got credit on a retention sale).

Again the customer is king (and queen too) and is always right. -Wonderboy

Ok, so let me get this straight, you make your initial presentation, the customer says "not interested" and you let it go at that?

Sorry, but that's just silliness. Rebuttal is nothing but answering a customer's objections. When a customer says "not interested" it simply means "I'm not interested right now" or "you haven't shown me why I should trade my big stack of money for your small stack of benifits."

In my experience "not interested" means you're not doing your job. All customers have objections, if you're not allowed to rebut those objections then how are you supposed to ever sell anyone anything?

The art of rebuttal is nothing but overcoming objections on the way to the sale. It does NOT mean arguing with the customer but simply a way of saying "ok, I understand why you might feel that way, but here is how this (tool, car, software) can meet your needs."

Pat -toolguy_35

Toolguy, how do you respond when the prospect yells at you "Which part of no don't you understand?!" -Wonderboy

Wonderboy what would you say to someone who said, "I want to think about it" or "Your price is too high"? -Marcus

Dunno, never had it happen, I manage my rebuttals in such a way as to not seem pushy.

Pat -toolguy_35

First let me say that an excuse may be legitimate (but as the customer is always right, that's what always counts).

Whenever I get an excuse I just work more on my presentation to give the next customer more of an urge ("thinking about it" or "let me talk to my spouse" indicates there is some interest, but not enough urge). The cliche "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" applies here as your time as better spent going after hot prospects (me and contributor Jack Werth agree on this).

ToolGuy, you probably do business face to face with your prospects which may explain why you haven't heard that phrase.
Over the phone (until I got more professional) I certainly have heard it mainly because it's a more impersonal situation.

To take it one step further, due to rebuttals, the B2C telemarketing industry has lost billions thanks to the federal do-not-call list brought on by rebuttals (which I regard as the greatest business blunder in history). So I'll issue you a challenge.
For one month don't use any rebuttals and think of ways of improving your presentation and I'll bet you'll make out better (I certainly did). -Wonderboy

Hot prospects can have difficulty making decisions too. A great presentation can make the decision easier but if a prospect voices an objection that doesn't mean they aren't "hot" and it doesn't mean a better presentation would have resulted in a different outcome. -Mikey

"...and it doesn't mean a better presentation would have resulted in a different outcome." If a presentation doesn't do it, why do reps think they have a better chance with a rebuttal?

Different people have their own idea as to what an objection is. Some will say that prospects are blowing smoke at you when they give you an objection (which may not be the real reason anyway).

I say that when you do a presentation well enough, you will build up your prospect's confidence in you as well as him- or herself to forestall any objection offered as a mere excuse. But don't expect the prospect to love a red car when he wants black. In any case I say that a good presentation will beat out 10 rebuttals anytime. -Wonderboy

"If a presentation doesn't do it, why do reps think they have a better chance with a rebuttal?"

Prospects are going to bring ideas and beliefs to the table that a salesperson wouldn't even know needed addressed until the objection was raised.

"Different people have their own idea as to what an objection is."

Definately. What an objection means or how much weight an objection carries can vary from person to person.

"I say that when you do a presentation well enough, you will build up your prospect's confidence in you as well as him- or herself to forestall any objection offered as a mere excuse."

There can be background issues you don't know about which cause the prospect to offer an excuse.

"But don't expect the prospect to love a red car when he wants black."

No question. -Mikey

"Prospects are going to bring ideas and beliefs to the table that a salesperson wouldn't even know needed addressed until the objection was raised." Again an excellent presentation should prevent that as you should always qualify the prospect.

I agree with the hidden issues that you touched upon (to the inexperienced rep, that can be exceeding a budget that a husband
set up with his wife for carpet cleaning so the wife needs her husband's approval).

With a rebuttal, more damage can be done (and has been done) than if nothing were said (e.g. I've had more customers turn themselves around by keeping my mouth shut than all the rebuttals put together which eventually helped set off a chain of events leading to the most wonderful presentation system ever developed). -Wonderboy

"Prospects are going to bring ideas and beliefs to the table that a salesperson wouldn't even know needed addressed until the objection was raised." Even after the most thorough qualifying process.

That can be said about so many things done improperly not just rebuttals. -Mikey

"That can be said about so many things done improperly not just rebuttals" Nothings going to top all the telemarketing jobs lost due to the federal do-not-call list that was spurred on by rebuttals.

As I indicated before, I accept the first no as a final no and just try to improve my presentation which has resulted in many more sales for me (I simply respect consumer choice which includes his or her right to turn down the offer). -Wonderboy

Wonderboy, I started in the telemarketing industry and I have to tell you that a properly done rebuttal, that is, one that is not scripted, never seems like a rebuttal.

The federal do-not-call list was brought on by over-pushy telemarketers (not sales people, there's a difference) who were forced to use a script and had to make so many rebuttals, according to script, or lose their jobs.

Scripts are idiotic and should never be used.

And yes, most of my business IS face to face, with customers with whom I have built a relationship. I see the same 500 guys week after week and about the only objection I face, outside of "will this do what I need it to do" is price. Which is usually easily overcome by pointing out how the price is not bad given the number of features on the tool and then discussing payment, not price.

That being said, rebuttals should never be arguing and if you're any good you should be able to tell by tone of voice, body language and just sheer intuition when "Not interested" means "You either haven't given me enough information to make a decision or you haven't made the product seem interesting enough for me." Or when "Not interested" is a firm "screw you I don't want your stinking product."

Generally speaking "not interested" is a request for more information.

Pat -toolguy_35

A bit more:

"Wonderboy, I started in the telemarketing industry and I have to tell you that a properly done rebuttal, that is, one that is not scripted, never seems like a rebuttal.

The federal do-not-call list was brought on by over-pushy telemarketers (not sales people, there's a difference) who were forced to use a script and had to make so many rebuttals, according to script, or lose their jobs.

Scripts are idiotic and should never be used."

Two things brought on that list:

(1) Pushy telemarketers with their rebuttals

(2) Being barraged by too many telemarketing calls

I can see using a script for a month, for training purposes, to get started (but no rebuttals). After the month, give the telemarketer leeway to say what he or she wants (of course keep it legal, truthful and not misleading - this requires greater responsibility on the part of the rep).

Where you say that a rebuttal can sound natural is our only real disagreement (not the part about sounding natural, but that it'll get you more sales). In this day and age, sales reps are highly distrusted. I've gotten better results on average keeping my mouth shut (e.g. in the middle of writing an order, a lady changed her mind about adding deodorizer to the order after first declining it). Eventually not using rebuttals helped inspire my system and I saw my sales take off. -Wonderboy

Wonderboy do you consider a salesperson's response to an objection as a rebuttal?

Example objection and response...

Prospect: I want to think about it.
Salesperson:Thinking is good. Tell me, what's the biggest doubt you have about this decision? -BossMan

It's how the public itself regards any response to an outright declination or "time to think about it." As I said the public has a high distrust of salespeople (due in part to telemarketing - by the way, I've had face-to-face encounters with some sales reps who were desparate for a sale so it's not all telemarketing). -Wonderboy

Any response or only those responses that are perceived negatively by the individual consumer? -BossMan

The key is "on average". The selling climate is such nowadays that no matter how skillfully a rebuttal is done, you'll get more sales without them than with them (want to mention when I've done telemarketing which is usually thought of being outbound, I've also done the inbound telemarketing as well). Customers are very sophisticated than are usually given credit for and through experience, many have developed an instinct to ignore anything that follows the presentation.

To see this for yourself, try selling without rebuttals for a month and witness the difference (it would be smart to build into your presentation any rebuttals you frequently use). -Wonderboy

The skilled salesperson will help alleviate the buyer's concerns before, during, and after the presentation.

In my experience the customer is an active participant in the sales call which can include asking questions before, during, and after the presentation. -BossMan

I improved to the point that with my customers, it's now or never (with the sole exception of Best Buy - posted elsewhere). I find rebuttals to, overall, hinder.

On your first point, since we're on the subject of rebuttals, I have a question for you after a story. When I worked at Best Buy doing tv demos, when I wasn't busy I was expected to help out customers (usually giving directions to other departments).

A lady came up to me saying she needed a tv stand. So we went over to the tv stand section. While we were walking she explained she needed a high one because when she put her feet up on the bed, her legs blocked her view of the screen.

When we got there, we found a stand she liked a lot (it even swiveled), but there was a problem. It was made of wood and she
needed metallic because her bedroom furniture was metallic. We
tried another section with no luck and with Best Buy, what you see is what you get because there is no "back room" furniture.

So what to do? Many reps would say come back or go to another
store. Before you rack your brains out, let me say that I have customer service experience and I do come up with solutions.
The solution: I suggested to the customer to buy the stand and spray paint it metallic.

She was delighted with my suggestion (and kept calling me a "...great salesman" when she learned I wasn't employed at the store) so I turned her over to a Best Buy associate to complete the purchase.

My question Bossman is do you feel that my suggestion is a rebuttal because without it, a sale would have been lost or do you feel that the sale was made when she said she wanted to get the stand and my suggestion is simply part of a presentation (unrehearsed mind you) which helped to close out the deal? -Wonderboy

For sake of discussion let's come to agreement on terminology. A rebuttal, evidence that attempts to explain, counteract, or disprove facts, can be a response but not all responses are rebuttals.

Your suggestion was a response, not a rebuttal, to resistance, an objection, about the product, wood instead of metallic. I don't view responses to resistance as "simply part of a presentation". -BossMan

My definition of a rebuttal is any statement(s) that attempt to change a prospect's mind to say yes regardless how factual the prospect's statements may be. -Wonderboy

Do you view your suggestion to the customer she buy the stand anyway and spray paint it metallic as what you call a "rebuttal"? -Jolly Roger

She never said she didn't want it so there was no mind to change (but I anticipated the objection before she stated it as she made clear her needs, otherwise I'd say it's pretty obvious she wouldn't have bought a non-metallic stand).

When a prospect clearly states a flat out no under any circumstances, then give up the chase (some sales reps have yet to learn). -Wonderboy

What would you have done if she had said she didn't want it because it was non-metallic? -Jolly Roger

Would have checked to see whether another Best Buy in the area carried it (keep in mind I didn't actually work for Best Buy so I'm limited as to what I can do). Would also have requested a rain check (as she liked the price too) so if a metallic stand did come in, she could come back to pick it up at that price or better (no other options come to mind).

What would you have done? -Wonderboy

And when those options had been exhausted what would you have done? Would you have made the suggestion to paint the piece? -Jolly Roger

Wonderboy,

What you can't seem to get is that ANY response to an objection is a rebuttal. The objection is what you are rebutting!

If you can't respond to objections because it might is some way "violate" the customer then you will never sell anything. I'm extremely dubious of any so-called system that says I'm not supposed to respond to objections.

Come to that, I'm pretty dubious of sales "systems" in the first place. Sales is as much art as science and systems are too inflexible to work consistantly.

Pat -toolguy_35

I gave you my definition of a rebuttal along with examples which doesn't correspond with your first paragraph.

Your next two paragraphs don't correspond with my experience (and others too). -Wonderboy

No because suggesting spray painting it would have been enough to cover the idea of painting it too (what options would you have offered?) -Wonderboy

I'm not following your train of thought. You said you would have checked another store in the area and suggested a rain check in case a metallic stand did come in. If you exhausted those option meaning you called around and could not locate a metallic stand and the consumer did not want a rain check would you have made the suggestion of painting the piece? -Jolly Roger

Since I already made the suggestion of spray painting the wooden stand, that automatically means I've suggested the idea of painting it too (if I understand your question). -Wonderboy

Let's try this one last time.

If...

• you had not already made a suggestion of spray painting the wooden stand
• you called around but couldn't locate a metallic stand
• the consumer wasn't interested in a rain check

...would you have made the suggestion of painting the piece? -Jolly Roger

Yes.

While I'm not a painting expert, I think spray painting would have worked out better. Why your focus on painting? -Wonderboy

My focus is on understanding the point you're trying to make. There seems to be some confusion in this thread on that point.

What I think you're saying is that when a potential customer makes the decision to dismiss your offer from further consideration anything you do in an attempt to change that person's mind is a confllict with consumer choice and perpetuates the negative stereotype of salespeople.

Is that what you are saying? -Jolly Roger

In telemarketing, due to persistence and an ever increasing barrage of phone calls, the B2C industry has been crippled by the federal DNC list (I understand up to 2 million jobs have been lost).

Getting down to the bottom line (not even considering my system), my sales have improved a bit (somewheres around 5-10%) by keeping my mouth shut rather than trying to change minds. By putting selling concepts from rebuttals into the presentation further improved my sales (still not my system - I've conceived this idea independently of someone else who wrote a book about it - if you're interested, let me know and I'll look up the name of the author and title). -Wonderboy

My focus is on understanding the point you're trying to make. There seems to be some confusion in this thread on that point.

What I think you're saying is that when a potential customer makes the decision to dismiss your offer from further consideration anything you do in an attempt to change that person's mind is a confllict with consumer choice and perpetuates the negative stereotype of salespeople.

Is that what you are saying?

That is one of the options available and it might be the best option for you but that doesn't make it the best option for someone else.

I understand that might be a new idea for you however it is common knowledge in presentation training. -Jolly Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderboy
Getting down to the bottom line (not even considering my system), my sales have improved a bit (somewheres around 5-10%) by keeping my mouth shut rather than trying to change minds.

That is one of the options available and it might be the best option for you but that doesn't make it the best option for someone else.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be an option (as I mentioned many telemarketing jobs have been lost and over the past 10 years). Managers and supervisors are realizing the damage that
rebuttals have done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderboy
By putting selling concepts from rebuttals into the presentation further improved my sales (still not my system - I've conceived this idea independently of someone else who wrote a book about it...).

I understand that might be a new idea for you however it is common knowledge in presentation training.

I only wish that the B2C industry was aware of it before the federal DNC list came around two years ago where the greatest damage was done (incidentally retail reps are guilty of this too along with some stores - for example a tailor at a Burlington Coat Factory kept pursuing me when I was walking away after I got finished talking with him). -Wonderboy

Your definition of a rebuttal is not the only one that is valid wonderboy.

I see, well my experience is different than yours and apparently the nebulous "others." I suspect there are others here who would agree with me.

If your "system" works for you then by all means, use it. My opinion that sales is as much art as science remains unchanged. The best practitioners of the art understand that flexibility is the key. If you cannot roll with the punches you will have a very unsuccessful career.

No two customers are the same, no two presentations are the same and no system can cover every eventuality.

Pat -toolguy_35

"Contradict" literally means "to speak against."
I align with those that think telling customers they’re “wrong” is usually a non-winning strategy. But customers sometimes (often) don’t know what’s best for them or may not be thinking about an optimum solution to their problems.

I strongly believe in the “iceberg analogy” that 90% of the customer’s buying decision process happens below the level of conscious thought. If that’s true, then the trick is not to “rebut” your customer’s verbal statements but help the customers explore (and change) their own thinking below the surface. The goal: help them reach a better solution, by themselves, for what really concerns them − with your products and service. You do that with questions, not “presentations.”

Consider also that (as Jeff Thull points out in Exceptional Selling, Chapter 1, “The more you sweat the less you sell,” that even if you do get the customer to agree verbally “Yes, you’re right and I’m wrong,” the customer’s unconscious mind is fighting back. That’s why so many verbal “yes’s” turn into “no’s” after the call. All you made was a “verbal sale.” You can’t put a verbal check in the bank.

I also really like job ready Strategist’s point about what language tells us about our beliefs. If you use words like “rebuttal, argument, spitting contest, lose and conflict,”(and “overcoming objections”) that’s a good indication that your subconscious mind wants to make the customer “wrong.” Same thing with “yes, BUT” responses. Customers know that everything before the “BUT” is B.S. -tom behr

Things aren't always what they seem and people don't always make the right choices.

This wasn't an awareness problem in my opinion. Being aware of the fact that most resistance, not all, can be preempted through good qualifying and presentation and acting on that knowledge don't always go hand in hand. -Jolly Roger

Thank you for reiterating my humble yet illuminating words of wisdom.sn; -job ready strategist

"But customers sometimes (often) don’t know what’s best for them..." The seller would know more about the product or service,
but the customer has the final say and responsibility in deciding on what's right for him or her. That's part of what's meant by "the customer is always right." (wouldn't you feel you were being treated as a child if a seller were to do this with you?) -Wonderboy

I align with those that think telling customers they’re “wrong” is usually a non-winning strategy.

I agree! msnwnk;

I strongly believe in the “iceberg analogy” that 90% of the customer’s buying decision process happens below the level of conscious thought. If that’s true, then the trick is not to “rebut” your customer’s verbal statements but help the customers explore (and change) their own thinking below the surface. The goal: help them reach a better solution, by themselves, for what really concerns them − with your products and service. You do that with questions, not “presentations.”

I agree! msnwnk; -Mikey

It does take a different skill set. Check out http://www.salespractice.com/forums/t-4714.html -AZBroker

Sharon Drew wrote the book (actually, several of them) on using questions to bring prospect ideas and beliefs to the table that a salesperson wouldn't even know needed to be addressed. Sometimes, without the questions, the prospect doesn't consciously realize these questions (and potential answers) exist, either. -tom behr

If a seller walked me through the buying facilitation process I would not feel I was being treated like a child but I would feel like I was being listened to and treated with respect. :thup -Houston

[quote=job ready strategist;21776]Great Friday to all, sn;

As (sales)persons, we must make a mental and physical effort to use positive words/expressions such as; let’s agree to disagree, I can appreciate your way of thinking, may I recommend/suggest.


I agree whole heartedly, it was always my policy during the past 42 years to adopt the AAC strategy. A= Acknowledge, A= Answer, C= Close. First you acknowledge the opinion by using those very words (see above) then you answer with the reasoning that your product/service is the one they should go for, and then ask for the order, in other words close. Then SHUT UP. -wildwood76

[quote=wildwood76;22982] "...let’s agree to disagree..." The Benjamin Franklin close is based on this concept. Still trying to get someone to change their mind. In the long run, on balance, the sales rep will lose in the big picture. Better to move on to live wires than dead fish to make the cash register ring with solid sales (a solid sale I define as a sale that never reverses or boomerangs - operationally speaking, not a great definition as you never know absolutely when an item may be returned nor when a service complaint may be lodged, so if someone has a better definition, feel free to post). -Wonderboy

[quote=Wonderboy;22991] Agree to disagree indeed. -Snowboy

I wonder if we may be trying to apply rigid rules to something extraordinarily alive and dynamic - the interaction with a customer over time. People do change their minds - otherwise we'd still believe the earth was flat and was the center of the universe. I'll go a step further and say that many (most) sales require that customers change their minds about what they believe is possible, appropriate (and safe) for them to do. But as so many in this forum have pointed out , it's not about making them wrong, but rather helping them choose to change. -tom behr

Couldn't have put it better myself tom. I have said it before in this forum, and in training sessions as well, systems are STUPID, rigid approaches DO NOT WORK.

Pat -toolguy_35

Tom - Love your thought there. -Snowboy

Tell us what you really think Toolguy -Snowboy

Rigid approaches don't fair well in the world of constant change. Not all "systems" are rigid though. msnwnk; -Calvin

Well said Clavin -Snowboy

Wonderboy for someone that does not believe in Rebuttals you sure have a ton of Rebuttals on why not to use Rebuttals.

Your point is well taken if a person has an objective most likely the presentation may need some work. I believe a person should always go back and improve you are 100% correct on that point. And at the same time many people and I do mean many people have a natural conditioned response to throw out a few concerns or objections. Certain people only want to deal with strong confident people. You can deliver a rebuttal with grace and respect. I certainly don't agree that a person should just walk away and quit. If you believe in what your selling and if you represent a product or service that will have a major impact its critical that you at least put some effort in it. If you don't then switch products only represent something that you are passionate about.

Harvard did a study that states on average a sales person will get five NO's from the same person before they even get a tickle of a yes from that same client. Again that is on average from TOP sales people.

Rebuttals are critical to any individual that is truly commited to mastering the art of influence. That's like saying when a woman says in a soft giggly voice no that you should stop. No does not always mean no you just have to begin with respect and have the awareness to read the non-verbal communication which is 10x stronger. Your advice denies 93% of the communication words are only 7%.

Wonderboy I still find it funny that you sure have a ton of Rebuttals on why not to use Rebuttals. -sander423

Just read every post in this thread and there are some truly deep insights here so I thought I'd throw my 2p (that's English money) worth in.

Over here we very rarely here the word rebuttal. We would talk more in terms of objection handling or resistance.

On that subject, I have always been taught (and later taught others) to make some kind of distinction between 'objections' and 'resistance'.

It clears ones thinking to think of resistance as generally, anything that happens early on in the interaction, during the approach say.

And think of objections as anything that happens (by definition) sometime after a closing question has been asked. I say by 'definition' because it would be hard to think of what a customer can be objecting to if I haven't made any call to action (close) yet.

I have shown many people a technique to handle objections (we'll call it objections for now) that involves going into the customer mind set to analyse what is 'really' being said.

I like to think that what the customers is 'really' saying is something like:

Customer internal thought process: I'm not going ahead because I believe (xyz) I'm not sure if I'm 100% right to believe that but let's see what this guy has to say about that.

So I always see objections as the customers' invitation to explain and reinforce their belief, or to allow us to challenge it with some other information.(It's kinda like they say: I think this.....what do you think)

This is why we often see the customer change their mind about a previously held belief, and deciding to go ahead when it seemed like they might not.

' Thinks out loud 'I think this is my attempt to define what a rebuttal is?'

As I said, some truly great insights in this thread.




-helisell

No such study by Harvard took place. It's a myth that grew legs and even has been professsed by at least one respected sales trainer.

The myth supports information (5 no's, etc.) that is not founded on fact. -Ace Coldiron

Ace Coldiron-I do know for a fact that Jim Camp's work is taught at Harvard's MBA program specifically "The best word in sales is NO."

In addition let's discuss verified information by Napolean Hill who was hired by Andrew Carnegie (the richest man in the world at the time) to study success. He spoke with in detail 500 of the richest self made men at the time. On page 4 of the well respected book Think and Grow Rich it clearly states "I will never stop because Men say No" then it goes on to explain the details.

I can't believe I am on a sales site that is actually communicating with a straight face that sales people should BOW because there is a little resistance or an objection... THAT IS FLAT OUT CRAZY and 100% WRONG! Stop the Maddness! -sander423

Hi Sander,

I can sense your outrage but to be fair to everyone who has posted...I don't think anyone here is implying that we just walk away if we get an objection.

I think we are just witnessing varying degrees of understanding/experience.

The members here are putting their view I think, based on the horror of going out into the big bad world that is 'selling', armed only with the ability to come up with a suitable 'rebuttal' for any objection they come up against.

We all know that selling is a mixed bag of situations/skills and the discussion is around 'rebuttals' and their use.

My view is that 'rebuttal' is the wrong word to use. (earlier post) -helisell

helisell- First I think to discuss whether we should use the word rebuttal or not is pointless we all get the general idea. A rebuttal is a response to an objection that would prevent the purchase.

What about the common one "I need to think about it." This is generally a lie. Very few people go home and break out the graphs. The truth is that right then and there is the time to think about it. You are the expert and you have the answers. If are truthful and they get all the facts then decided a true NO that is one thing but the majority of the people will NOT go home and research they will drift off back into their day to day. So my position is that I am a truth seeker and I will call someone out if they are BS me. Some people are irritated when I uncover dishonesty. But I sleep just fine at night. All I ask is that a person be upfront with me if the end result is this is not for them I am completely cool with that. And I will verify to the best of my ability that I am getting the truth.

Respectfully please read this whole post. wonderboy is without question saying DON'T USE REBUTTALS EVER.

He made this statement:

"To see this for yourself, try selling without rebuttals for a month and witness the difference"

He also said:

"I find rebuttals to, overall, hinder."

He started this thread with Do you use rebuttals to change minds?

After that he has posted reply after reply that clearly state he does not agree with using rebuttals ever, his whole position has been if you get a no STOP don't argue let that person go and then go back to improve your presentation which by they way assumes that every person is the same. People are unique using the same thing for every person doesn't make much sense.

Some of his advice has been:

when you argue with a prospect, you lose.

This assumes a conversation that does not include non-stop "yes" is an argument.

Then he does on to say that you are disrespecting a consumer's choice.

This also assumes that there are no people in the world that flat out like to debate and test a person's knowledge.

Then he says when you give all the relevant information in your presentation to the prospect, there's nothing more.

This assumes that people don't attach different meaning to the same word and that the person is listening 100% of the time as opposed to having their own thoughts based on a reaction to something that was said a few seconds earlier. This also assumes that a client never ever misunderstands you.

He says over and over again THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT. All the things he has ever heard in sales this is his driving thought. This assumes that a customer won't lie as a defense move because they don't have trust for you yet. If a customer lies to me they are wrong and I will pull their *** on the carpet. I will confront a lie without hestitation. The customer being right assumes that the customer knows more about your product then you do even though your entire world revolves around this product or service. This assumes that you are subordinate to their great will.

Then he goes on to say "In any case I say that a good presentation will beat out 10 rebuttals anytime."

This assumes you have to make a choice. YES without question you should have a good presentation that has tons of probing question that require the client to answer in detail not just yes or no. Your presentation should give you access to their world so you can clearly understand their needs and more importantly their desires. In addition though you most have rebuttals (or whatever word you want to use) to dig deeper to find out where the miscommunication occurred. Usually an objection comes down to either cost or they don't believe you. To overcome this you must a have a quick confident response.

The bottom line is that every sales person should always improve. Without question Improve, Improve, Improve we are all in agreement.

And secondly seek the truth. Have quick response to determine where the miscommunication occured. If you have asked the right questions you should know whether this will make the clients life better. If you truly believe it will. DO NOT SELL FOR PERSONEL GAIN. Sell because you truly believe based on your clear understanding of their situation that they will be better off with your product or service. If you have this internal certainty DO NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER. Use a great presentation and use REBUTTALS every time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unless you are selling some piss ant product or service that has no impact if that is the case you are the problem. -sander423

Well.......I'm with you 100% Sander but..........

Well but...nothing...I agree wholeheartedly....and as for customers choice..

If I've presented a valid and valuable solution that is the right solution and the customers choice is not opt for it...

I'll rebutt 'til the cows come home.

Great post Sander.. -helisell

You spent many words where not many more were necessary. You need an editor, is what you need, just as I do. What is the point... is that we do the best for our client. We should know by the time we ask for agreement if they need it. In your example, I want to think about it, you're exactly right, now is the time or there is something else.

To your other point, honest dialog, that is our job as sales professionals to promote, provide and preserve. What you can do to uncover the truth, whether rebuttal or other is necessary for a sincere exchange of goods and services.


... essentially you've said a lot... in my opinion that is. thmbp2;

Much Aloha... shds; ;bg -rattus58

Why on earth is "rebuttal" the subject of a sales forum??

This is the definition of the word as proffered earlier ... "Rebuttal" - "to contradict or oppose by formal legal argument, plea, or countervailing proof" ... WOW, I must remember to add "rebuttal techniques" to my next training program! A session on "How To Alienate a Prospect by Identifying and Contradicting a Fundamental Objection by Providing Countervailing Proof That They're Totally Wrong" could occupy an entire day.

No, I don't use rebuttals, Lawyers "rebut" (yes, that's a word?) evidence ... Salespeople present an opposing viewpoint by professionally handling an objection without eliciting conflict! ... Which are you?

BTW, for the record and the benefit of the rebutting head-butters out there (if there really are any) I checked, you tell me if "rebutting" fits your perception of good sales technique ... it certainly doesn't fit mine ...

rebut |riˈbət|
verb ( -butted , -butting ) [ trans. ]
1. claim or prove that (evidence or an accusation) is false : he had to rebut charges of acting for the convenience of his political friends.
2. drive back or repel (a person or attack). -Tony1905

Quote:

Why on earth is "rebuttal" the subject of a sales forum??

You're taking this too literally. Action Selling, for example as one possibility of many, has you asking questions. As you NOTE THESE DOWN you will have resources available to you later that you refer to to "tie" your product or service to your client in a positive manner.

If you get an objection, stall, misdirection, what ever it is, it is entirely possible to have his objection, or a point related, that if you have been doing your job, writing stuff down, that you counter, rebut, re-clarify, maybe even have to re-visit previous statements of your client. Whether this is "rebuttal" is semantics in my opinion, and maybe is the wrong the wrong word, but if your client says, "I need $500,000 of Life Insurance" and later says "I have enough Life Insurance", questioning him about his earlier statements is a rebuttal, but but I don't consider them at all in the manner you seem to consider them.

Aloha... :cool: -rattus58

Sander423, I am very familiar with Jim Camp's work and have cited it more than once on SalesPractice. Camp's material has surfaced at lectures at various colleges.

Further, as I stated, the "study" at Harvard about the 5 no's never took place, and is one of a handful of urban rumors about what has taken place at Harvard.

Lastly, Camp's material on "No" is in a much different context than what you are describing in your posts. It is very similar to the work of David Sandler, and it is excellent material. Basically, Camp teaches the effectiveness of bringing a prospect to a neutral position. Sandler preached that also.

SO..before you get bent out of shape with any more of your comments regarding other members, such as "THAT IS FLAT OUT CRAZY and 100% WRONG! Stop the Maddness! (sic)", I suggest you learn what you're trying to talk about. As a matter of fact, even if and when you do know what you're talking about, those remarks will not be welcome here.

The Hill reference is accurate, but it was actually Hill quoting an insurance man named Darby. It was in reference to not quitting when overtaken by "temporary defeat", a topic that Hill covered vary early in his book. Most readers know about the 500 men studied because it is mentioned in the second paragraph of the publisher's preface. -Ace Coldiron

[quote=rattus58;43286]

Action Selling, for example as one possibility of many, has you asking questions. As you NOTE THESE DOWN you will have resources available to you later that you refer to to "tie" your product or service to your client in a positive manner.

Thanks for clarifying Rattus,

I'm not familiar with 'Action Selling' which I now assume to be the sales philosophy at the heart of this discussion.
Perhaps you could advise where it can be found so that I can read up and at least make an informed judgement on how this 'rebuttal' concept fits in the context of the entire process. Tony ;sm -Tony1905

[quote=Tony1905;43292] Hi Tony,

Hi Tony, here is a website that you can peruse that sheds some light on kinda oversimplified approach to the selling process, that attempts to keep things tied together throughout the various "acts" of Action Selling.

Questioning, Identifying areas of where your product or service relates to your clients needs, wants, or desires, and which allows you to try out possible solutions for them that make sense before finally coming to agreement.

If you come into a moment of indecision with your client, you should have a history with him in which to review. If this indicison should for whatever reason evolve to the irrational, you may have confront your client, but is this rebuttal? Maybe. Seeking the truth, as was suggested by Sander... is in MY OPINION necessary to proceed, if it is missing.

Much Aloha.... Tom -rattus58

Wonderboy (not Snowboy, BTW) is working with some flawed beliefs on this thread which are revealed in his following two statements:

"When you give all the relevant information in your presentation to the prospect, there's nothing more. This is the essence of the consumer always being right."

That assumes that a point can be reached when "all relevant information" is present. Simply not true in any situation. Also, he is using the meme, The Customer is Always Right, in a totally different context from it's popular usage. His usage is NOT "the essence" of that statement. The Customer is Always Right is an arbitrary philosophy used to exemplify, rightly or wrongly, policies or general attitudes that are Service Related. His borrowing of that construct is out of place here.

"My definition of a rebuttal is any statement(s) that attempt to change a prospect's mind to say yes regardless how factual the prospect's statements may be."

I guess we are all entitled to our own definitions, but where does "factual" play in. I'm not saying that a prospect is not able to state facts, but in selling we're dealing with Perceptions more often. To walk away from a selling opportunity and not engage the perceptions--both our own and those of the prospects--is unfathomable to me.

In fairness, however it's important to realize the difference between a perception and a stance. "No" is a stance. It is founded on perceptions. I don't like the word "rebuttal" in either case. The key is to "engage" in either case. -Ace Coldiron

Tony, these discussions often gets into semantics, and worse--chaotic context.

The word "Rebuttal", as used in conversations about selling, originates from the training programs in many direct sales organizations. It's a valid word in these discussions, and references from other contexts, i.e. legal, conflict, etc, don't really pertain to the subject matter here.

If you're not familiar with it's "sales training" usage, in a nutshell it usually refers to standard, learned, and sometimes memorized responses to prospects' objections. They often are constructed to bring forth an emotion from the prospect in order to capture agreement.

I'll provide an example from the formal training of Encyclopaedia Britannica several years ago. It's an interesting study:

Prospect: My children are too young.

EB: How young are they?

Prospect: Timmy is four, and Bonnie is only three.

EB: That IS young. Do they ask a lot of questions?

Prospect: They sure DO!

EB: Well let me ask you something. Let's suppose that the next time one of them comes up and asks "Mommy, how does a fly walk on the ceiling?" or "Where is China?" or "How far away is the moon?", you were able to say to them, "Let's you and I go look that up in OUR Encyclopaedia Britannica." Not only would you be encouraging them about learning and reading, but would you agree that would be a SHARED EXPERIENCE?"

That was one of the most successful rebuttals, taught word-for-word, in the history of direct sales. In those days, prior to CD software replacing much of the distribution of encyclopedias in the form of sets of books, there were encyclopedia salespeople earning as much as $400,000 annually.

BTW, Tony, I see you're from Australia. You might be interested to know that one of the three biggest and most successful strategic sales intiatives for EBUSA (Encyclopaedia Britannica USA) originated in Australia, another in Canada. Those two methodologies had a huge influence on direct sales organizations, and, event marketing in the years since. -Ace Coldiron

Not only do I have TWO sets of encyclopedias, I gave specific instruction to keep that Hoover guy out of the door too.... sn;

Aloha... shds; ;bg -rattus58

So at long last can I learn how a fly walks on a ceiling?

Interesting how Hoover became the Kleenex word. Were they really sold door to door? I know others were. -Ace Coldiron

Wonderboy, I did not read all nine pages and I don't think I need to because I think I get your point. I'll demonstrate with an off-color example; A man walks into a club and approaches a stranger (woman) sitting at the bar. The man gives his best effort in trying to engage the woman in conversation and she let's him know that she's not interested. If the man continues with his unwanted advances he is not respecting her choice. I agree that the man would be better off finding a more receptive audience and working on his skills for future interactions. -Seth

This goes to show you how much I pay attention.... KIRBY.... KIRBY.... KIRBY.... KIRBY....

I was focusing on the "DON'T LET HIM IN THE DOOR!" part...

Sorry, I was beset by mind function sludge..... and 19 years ago it cost me $2,300....

I'm sending you my proofs from now on... :)

To discover how a fly walked on a ceiling, you'd more likely have to peel away the wax bullets from wall to investigate what kind of glue these guys use on there feets... :) Otherwise you'd require I get out of my chair.... sn;

Much Aloha.... Tom :cool: -rattus58

Guy must have asked for the order. Must have rebutted the hell out of you. Must have struck while the iron was hot. Must have fanned your flames. Or was it a woman? -Ace Coldiron

It was MY woman who let him in the door whilst I was jaunting across the Pacific and comes home to a proudly shiny carpet.... sn;

Much Aloha... Tom shds; ;bg -rattus58

Must have been good. One legged pitch. -Ace Coldiron

You've no idear what I've accused..... sn;

Aloha.... shds; ;bg -rattus58

Thought about it, but wouldn't go there, Tom. -Ace Coldiron

This thread appears to have ran its course. I am going to close it down. -Jeff Blackwell