It's All The Same!

MitchM, I enjoy your posts, share some of your beliefs, and admire your style. But I think Pat makes a good point about that repetitive "amateur" reference. You impress me as the kind of guy who looks inward. Next time you do just that, see if you don't detect that the amateur reference might be a defensive shield you use, to fend off overly agressive responses to some of the views you express.

Then, if you do see that, and only if you do, decide whether that manipulation fits your style---which, again, is a style I personally admire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OUTSource Sales

In my experience, the answer isn't in a book. The issue with finding inspiration in a book is that it tends to be short-lived. I've worked with a number of people who have found information which has helped but, in the main, meaningful success has come from being serious about working a sales methodology or methodologies into their personal style.
Pat

Outstanding commentary, Pat.

JoeC - that I'm introspective should be apparent - one of my challenges is to ba as externally active as I am internally and it's very much a challenge at times.

Calling myself an amateur is a reference with purpose - it's more of a point for contention or comparison/contrast that someone may find useful for introspection - in that manipulation I'm fine.

BUT I use it more as an adjective or noun in describing myself - just as I self taught guitar, self taught house painting, and discovered what served me best outside text books on my specific subjects when I taught middle and high school was also self taught and more valuable that most of the professional resources in my case.

ALSO in a real sense, I've only been in a sales situation for eleven years, it's not a life long profession, and in direct selling/network or multi level marketing I believe most of us are amateurs which is one of the big challenges.

My personal definition of "amataur" is one who does something for the sheer love and discipline of doing it - those who call themselves amateurs or professionals in anything can achieve the same measure of success or not - so it goes.

MitchM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchM

J
Calling myself an amateur is a reference with purpose - it's more of a point for contention or comparison/contrast that someone may find useful for introspection - in that manipulation I'm fine.

BUT I use it more as an adjective or noun in describing myself - just as I self taught guitar, self taught house painting, and discovered what served me best outside text books on my specific subjects when I taught middle and high school was also self taught and more valuable that most of the professional resources in my case.

ALSO in a real sense, I've only been in a sales situation for eleven years, it's not a life long profession, and in direct selling/network or multi level marketing I believe most of us are amateurs which is one of the big challenges.

My personal definition of "amataur" is one who does something for the sheer love and discipline of doing it - those who call themselves amateurs or professionals in anything can achieve the same measure of success or not - so it goes.

MitchM

The challenge for readers is that "amateur" doesn't mean "self-taught". And your personal definition of "amateur" doesn't match the dictionary definition which the rest of us use, so it makes it a challenge to understand your meaning without clarifications, sometimes several levels of clarifications.

(BUT I use it more as an adjective or noun in describing myself - just as I self taught guitar, self taught house painting, and discovered what served me best outside text books on my specific subjects when I taught middle and high school was also self taught and more valuable than most of the professional resources in my case.

ALSO in a real sense, I've only been in a sales situation for eleven years, it's not a life long profession, and in direct selling/network or multi level marketing I believe most of us are amateurs which is one of the big challenges.

My personal definition of "amataur" is one who does something for the sheer love and discipline of doing it - those who call themselves amateurs or professionals in anything can achieve the same measure of success or not - so it goes.) MitchM

You left out some of the context, Skip - I've noticed that you do that a lot to make a point failing to take in the entire context. If you can only focus on a phrase here and there that might be one of the reasons you can't understand this or that - but I may be wrong. Ther may be other reasons.
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"Mitch, you seem to be describing "someone buying" vs "you selling". If someone pays well for this and provides quality leads, my congratulations.

Your comments in the following are somewhat revealing though: "I retain a simplistic attitude that someone says YES or NO to what I offer and I stop there - for now. A return to a reworded offer can come in time." Having just stated that you don't assume the sale, you talk here about rewording an offer in time: You are assuming the sale." - Pat

Rewording an offer isn't assuming a sale - it's knowing that time changes things and someone might want tomorrow that wasn't wanted last month - that's Sales 101, isn't it! Even an amateur knows that!

I generate my own leads - radio advertising, cold calling, people I meet - my business is direct selling/network or multi level marketing which is extremely challenging because success is also dependent on the success of the people you recruit. So I have to be a trainer also - a promoter, marketer, advertiser sometimes, retailer, recriiter and trainer which is a lot of hats to wear.

The reality of what I do is that it attracts mostly amateurs or no experience in sales and to even earn a middle to high five figure income is a great accomplishment. To get into the six figures is as rare as it is in many sales positions and seven figures even rarer. But so is that true in real estate, insurance, investments - a few things I know a little about.

I originally called myself in one context an amateur because unlike many here I'm not a life long sales professional - I only have eleven years with my company. But amateurs can earn great incomes into the six and seven figures in many professions when the professionals earn much less - that's also common knowledge. Why anyone has a hang up about what I call myself I don't know.
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So I call up a lead or meet someone at Panera bakery and find out if that person wants what I say I have - it might be a quick question on the phone or in a conversation at the bakery. The person either says YES or NO most of the time. If it's something else I find out what that means - like if it's maybe I ask why maybe. In the end I get a YES or NO - then take it from there.

The selling part is knowing how to disquality then knowing how to further find out if this is someone I want to sell to or work with and if we can agree on what that person and I both expect. That is the heart of the sales - after the commitment the conversation of attentive questions and answers while I listen for agreement, commitment, and mutual satisfaction.

In none of that do I use any of the closing techniques I once learned how to apply nor do I attempt to dissuade someone from changing his or her mind who at any point becomes difficult to understand or suddenly makes demands on what I'm not willing to go with and is unwilling to meet my expectations.

That's the sales part I'm in study with and have been for three or four years now and I like it and use it so - a sale is a sale is a sale and if you do it right it's all roses! and it's all the same.

MitchM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchM

The selling part is knowing how to disquality then knowing how to further find out if this is someone I want to sell to or work with and if we can agree on what that person and I both expect.

MitchM in all fairness I would call that prospecting not selling.

I get these things confused, Houston - remember, amateur! I prospect for people who want what I offer and sell it to them when they want it - otherwise I recruit people.

In my world the act of prospecting is distinct from the sale are both distince from the marketing or advertising. YET when I call a lead or talk with someone or cold call a prodpect, the nature of that activity brings prospecting and selling into one movement with a beginning, middle and end.

In martial arts - maybe someone here studies martial arts - there's what's called internal and external and though they have different components with work together and can't be separated. That's how prospecting and selling work for me - it fits together - there's also a presentation afterwhich comes the close, the decision,

BUT it initially begins with a YES I want to move forward with that otherwise it wouldn't begin.

MitchM

MitchM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchM

In my world the act of prospecting is distinct from the sale are both distince from the marketing or advertising. YET when I call a lead or talk with someone or cold call a prodpect, the nature of that activity brings prospecting and selling into one movement with a beginning, middle and end.

In martial arts - maybe someone here studies martial arts - there's what's called internal and external and though they have different components with work together and can't be separated. That's how prospecting and selling work for me - it fits together - there's also a presentation afterwhich comes the close, the decision,

BUT it initially begins with a YES I want to move forward with that otherwise it wouldn't begin.

Makes sense.

Help me out, Houston - you cut and pasted two paragraphs and a sentence with a few ideas and an analogy - what is it that makes sense to you and how does it work in your career?

I ask because too many times there's an agreement or statement - that makes sense; or I see - but is it so? What's being communicated anyway.

MitchM

MitchM, I think I see something in your posts that underlys the scarcity/abundance poles.

I'm not talking about dollars or material gains. I'm thinking that when you arrived at a point where "you got it", winning sales became just a natural culmination of who you became---who you are.

It's All The Same!

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