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Fake It 'Till Ya Make It!

Fake it 'till ya make it is becomming the law-of-the sales land. Maybe it always has been that way. I see it, I hear it, I read it.

Sales coaching/mentoring is big at it. Get a site, write in some copy that makes it look like DaGuru has arrived with acolades and a history of success - and you're off to make your millions.

Salesmen are big at it. Everything is great, fantastic, fine, top-of-the-world. Well, you don't need negative thinking in your face do you?

My unscientific amateurish opinion is that this is neither the high nor the low road to success.

Mitchm - by MitchM
What does "Fake It 'Till Ya Make It!" mean to you? - by Houston
It means nothing to me, Houston. Like anyone I can apply definitions to the phrase.

Those I know who have used that - acted and even used those words - used it to mean they pretended to be earning more money then they were; they pretended to be more successful in sales positions than they were; they pretended to be more successful in coaching/mentoring than they were; they were pretenders.

They acted in a way or told me that the idea is if you pretend you are what you are not but expect to be you will attract the attention the business the accounts the sales you want because people will believe you.

There's a lot of contemporary information that turns convolution of an ideal or projection or pretending into what's touted as "law of attraction" and other things giving the pretender a way to view his pretensions as valid, honest, morally corrrect and a good thing.

Those are some things I've heard and seen and how I understand fake it 'till ya make it to mean for people.

Does it mean anything to you, Houston and if so what?

MitchM - by MitchM
Does it mean anything to you, Houston and if so what?
This story represents what it means to me:

http://www.nightingale.com/AE_Article~i~193~article~FakeItTillYouMakeIt.aspx - by Houston
Earl Nighingale's radio message is a classic - that example one I'd call emulating success. My post is more in line with false information when applying for a job and credentials that are made up.

MitchM - by MitchM
Emulating success isn't faking it until you make it any more than disciplined practice copying the best is the same as pretense. Inflated, made-up resumes to promote one's sale's coaching skill and following is faking it until you make it. Inflated, made up incomes to promote one's sales ability is faking until you make it.

Then every now and then comes an imposter who fakes it then makes it - we all know the history books are filled with this kind of success for good and for ill. Subterfuge wears many faces.

MitchM - by MitchM
Emulating success isn't faking it until you make it any more than disciplined practice copying the best is the same as pretense. Inflated, made-up resumes to promote one's sale's coaching skill and following is faking it until you make it. Inflated, made up incomes to promote one's sales ability is faking until you make it.

Then every now and then comes an imposter who fakes it then makes it - we all know the history books are filled with this kind of success for good and for ill. Subterfuge wears many faces.

MitchM
MitchM, there's a gray area related to your topic. Faking it is one thing. Taking, and accepting (ie. from this day forward) is another. A person can make a conscious and definitive decision to become a professional, and standard bearer in his/her field. At that point it becomes true, because growth starts.

If, on the other hand, a person fakes the rewards of professionalism and achievment and embellishes his/her status, it's a different matter. It is possible that it could be effective, but in most cases it's a house of cards. - by Joe Closer
I don't see any gray in this unless it's either pretension e.g. hyping and lying about things OR confusion.

Professional behavior and emulating successful people is not the same as faking it until you make it - they are black and white different.

Obviously some extremely successful people have put up a pretense and become exceptionally successful through successful subterfudge with no morial issues, no legal or criminal or deceptive issues that hurt anyone. Likewise, many straight shooters using Full Disclosure as their DoctrineOfBehavior have not succeeded for other reasons.

I've become aware of many people in situations inflating what they've done to sound like seasoned business coaches and mentors and likewise, I've also become aware of people in sales inflating their success and status for whatever reasons.

Any other observations about what fake it 'till you make it means?

MitchM - by MitchM
Fake It 'Till Ya Make It - This has never been about deception to me but instead it's been about adopting a mindset and acting accordingly based on the person you want to be at some future place in time. - by SpeedRacer
That's not the same as faking it until you make it, SpeedRacer. That's emulating successful people in manner and behavior with an attitude toward your own success. They are not the same.

One of the ways I see what you posted turned into making it 'till ya fake it is in the behavior of someone I know personally - since she expects to be a million dollar income earner, since she expects the people she's working with to want to be the same, and since she believes it's important to frame success in the present tense to "attract" success, I've heard her say: "I'm building a million dollar business with like minded friends. We're already making plans for a big party we're throwing next August. Our business is a million dollar business and it's getting better every day."

Delusion? Imagination Gone Wild? Adopting a success mind-set? Something else?

Then come the so called "success coaches" who rewrite their history in words and phrases that make it sound like they've coached the biggest and the best - you know, had a coffee with brother John who works for MegaGlobalCorp INReT so one of my clients has been: INRet. - by MitchM
That's not the same as faking it until you make it, SpeedRacer. That's emulating successful people in manner and behavior with an attitude toward your own success. They are not the same.
That is "fake it 'till you make it" to me.

My example doesn't require that you emulate any one person but instead that you adopt a certain mindset depending on the circumstance and act accordingly. If you want to be a champion golfer then you need to act and make decisions accordingly, as if you already were a champion. - by SpeedRacer
This concept of mindset that has captivated us for over a decade is a fascinating one - what it means in different contexts and how it's applied to action is a fascinating study.

What it means to have a champion mindset with behavior that matches the mind set has so many variations and descriptions. How the character of our thinking and actions develop and work in harmony is a study I continue to explore.

Emulating a mindset and what that means, acting and making decisions as you believe someone who has done what you want to do are not things typically taught in our schools, are they SpeedRacer.

MitchM - by MitchM
Fake it til you make it...

In a +ve sense, it means that action changes thinking.

In another +ve sense, it refers to what Tony Robbins would call 'modeling' I think - i.e. do what successful people do until it becomes second nature to you.

Maybe a -ve version of this idea would be people pretending to be what they're not as mentioned.

I don't use the phrase myself. - by Sam Deeks
This thread is perhaps starting to get a bit into Semantics. The NAME or TITLE of

Perhaps this will shed some light on the topic from a new direction; in the Network Marketing (MLM) business/industry the term "Fake it till you make it" really does mean something. But does it meant eh same thing in sales?

Do you need to fake the reputation of the company you have chosen to work for or built? If you built your own company surely you used references you had while working in a similar business before you started you own, that and offers to your first few clients to fulfill first and only send an invoice after they are happy, just to get started.

I could take a job selling almost anything and start tomorrow. Do I have to fake anything or do I need to just know how the benefits of my product or service can potentially help my prospect?

Starting in MLM you can appear to be successful - how would your prospect know any better unless you simply had not studied the industry? That is different and perhaps the subtle difference is not easily apparent unless you have had this experience but there is a reason why you might want to leave the perception of your prospect that you are more successful than you are!

In Earl Nightingale's case he was better prepared than anyone else. That is how he got his first big time radio announcer job.

The same thing must be true if you are to start a website. You must be prepared as the GURU, not just write ad/website copy like you are one. Because you will get found out as a fake.

Preparation and study are essential if you are to succeed to your full potential in what we might call 'the art of influence', otherwise known as salesmanship. It is now 30 years since I took Xerox's sales course (Professional Selling Skills II) and now, more than ever, I am certain that preparation, study, creativeness and hard work are the things that have caused me to rise above the crowd (when I have). And I did not fake any of those things.

I agree wholeheartedly, Earl's example is the only example that I want to follow. No matter what NAME or TITLE you wish to give it. Perhaps this expression and what it means (Fake it till you make it) is really not what matters. And, to that all I can say is I hope my perspective helps. - by Gold Calling
"If you want a quality, act as if you already had it." -- William James - by Milton
Faking it 'til you make it in multi level marketing or sales in general can mean different things as this thread has come to show. Faking it as in pretending, falsely projecting, or lying about your personal success is something I dislike. I also know that a clever deception has turned an idea into gold and saved a nation from calamity - we all know this.

In my small world of day to day business activity: "I could take a job selling almost anything and start tomorrow. Do I have to fake anything or do I need to just know how the benefits of my product or service can potentially help my prospect?" - Gold Calling needing to know how the benefits of my product or service is enough.

AND "I am certain that preparation, study, creativeness and hard work" - Gold Calling is also what matters.

MitchM - by MitchM
Two things come to mind when I see that phrase.

Lack of proper training --leading one to have to fake knowledge until they can obtain it through real life expereince.

and

Acting more prosperous than you actually are. Taking on some debt you really don't need to adorn yourself in fancy clothes, car, house, etc that you really can't afford yet.

Dangerous path to success IMO.

If you go down that path, and it isn't going so well, I think you will be more likely to bend rules, etc to make it to the top. Not a path I'd like to see people take, but I understand the draw. - by Telephone Guru
No, you must never lie. This is acting without integrity.

However, I have noticed people assuming that I was more successful than I was at the time in both Traditional Sales and MLM. Perception is reality.

Training and preparation - these are the keys to success along with blood, sweat and tears, otherwise known as good old fashioned hard work.

Once again, though this thread has become a lighting rod, I do not think the phrase that is it's topic is all that important. And much of this thread has become a discussion of Semantics, unfortunately, because that can go on forever without a resolution.

Let me end by saying there are a lot of good people hanging out here. And, though "fake it till you make it" may offend one person to another it is not about deception at all. Everyone is right, as we are all entitled to our perception of what this means. And attitude is, most definitely a part of success and professionalism.

This would make a good poll question. - by Gold Calling
When people don't know the definitions of common words and problems arise from the misunderstandings no one benefits.

In a reply deleted by the moderator of this forum, I used the word amoral in an older sense of the word to classify something that has no grounding in a moral or defined sense but rather is deemed relative to one's perspective. My error was in assuming the definition would be understood as one meaning neutral in morality or definition - one of relative "anything you want it to mean" rather then meaning dishonest or unmoral. I didn't equate amoral with unmoral or immoral.

So it was a definition misunderstanding. I should have used another word - what I don't know at the moment. Whatever you want to call something that has no definite right or wrong or good or bad or base definition other than relative or neutral.

One definition you find online is: 1 a: being neither moral nor immoral; specifically : lying outside the sphere to which moral judgments apply <science as such is completely amoral — W. S. Thompson> b: lacking moral sensibility <infants are amoral>2: being outside or beyond the moral order or a particular code of morals <amoral customs>

I used amoral to mean that - also relative, with no defined grounding which I still read in the last paragraph of the reply I'm replying to - I don't mean it to be a flame or negative comment - just as I see a factual statement.

It's too bad my reply was deleted as the rest of it could have been discussed if anyone cared to discuss it.

MitchM - by MitchM
Here is a factual statement;

In no way am I unprincipled, unethical, dishonorable, unscrupulous, immoral or anything between having high business and personal morals and not having them. If immoral is left, amoral is in between and moral is right I am on the far right, about as far as you can get in fact. And I say that because in addition to perceptions in this thread that are fascinating, clearly, some are or were misunderstandings.

I also agree with the deletion of the last two posts in the thread (the ones removed), which many would not have seen (because they are or were out selling instead of hanging out here) and that is a good thing. Because of some negative points that could cause others not to post for fear of ridicule.

When I used the term semantics what I meant was that the interpretation of the words, which are symbols, widely varied. And a poll question could be asked in regards to what people perceived of the phrase that started this thread (though we have beaten the horse pretty good already). And, while that would be interesting would it forward our knowledge as a community on sales skills? And, as an answer, I suspect only in that it proves that words are interpreted quite differently. If we as like-minded, experienced sales people that have disagreed on what was being shared imagine the affect or our words and actions on prospects and clients!

"Fake it till you make it", in terms of the perception of success, to me, applies to MLM and to DIRECT MARKETING, definitely. But not to SALES - this is my impression. And, while I liked the posts and thread started by MitchM, would entertain a discussion about the specialties that this phrase do apply to, I note again that this thread seemed to sway back and forth with different perceptions of the phrase coming from opposing sides.

The reference to Earl Nightingale was inspirational indeed. A great story. That was worth reading this site for the last 2 days!

I beleive a forum like this one can be an amazing for inspiration and information. But forums can also be unruly too, which I have experienced through discussion sites that are not policed. It is up to us all to respect each other, be polite and make this community a place where it is fun to check in, then and only then is it possible this forum will grow into what it could be. If that is the direction this forum should take then I would be proud to contribute. - by Gold Calling
I like to work in a world of objective definitions rather than perceptions - sometimes they over lap or aren't definitive or clearly objective to everyone in a conversation.

Any kind of sales situation is what I had in mind when I started this thread though - not this or that.

People often dislike answering direct questions or questioning themselves - I like doing those two things and look for like minded people who would engage in that kind of self examination.

I haven't seen "opposite sides" rather different things treated as opposites rather than different - semantics isn't always the reason for that distinction.

The definition I posted on amoral is okay to me for this discussion - not unmoral or immoral - neutral is how I used it, or relative to one's perception.

"Relative to one's perception" is often a failure to differentiate objective elements of something but it can also be a perceptual thing.

Faking it 'till you make it is about subterfuge but as I posted gold has been mined through subterfuge and nations saved because of a fake.

MitchM - by MitchM
I haven't seen "opposite sides" rather different things treated as opposites rather than different - semantics isn't always the reason for that distinction.

The definition I posted on amoral is okay to me for this discussion - not unmoral or immoral - neutral is how I used it, or relative to one's perception.

"Relative to one's perception" is often a failure to differentiate objective elements of something but it can also be a perceptual thing.
MitchM
Huh???

I don't know if I'm speaking for anyone else here (maybe or maybe not): Please, please, please, write in a manner such that we can all understand what the heck you're trying to say! - by Skip Anderson
Keep trying, Skip - I feel the same about some of the things I read here but obviously they think them make sense so me telling them they don't won't help.

Much of what you quoted referenced former posts and replies between me and GC and a now defunct e.g. deleted reply I made to GC the moderator deemed deletable, hence maybe some of your confusion.

There was confusion concerning my use of the word amoral and a connection I made to GC's post concerning his use of the word perspective. That's some of it.

Fake it 'till ya make it: many times the distinctions are blurred so someone can justify their faking it. Who says: "I'm going to lie to fool people so they think I'm what I'm not so I can attract more business."

Pretense and subterfuge though - to be fair to the power pf deception - have saved nations and turned saw dust into gold from time to time. But that's out of this context!

Then come those who deem themselves sales coaches with the hyped acolades and inflated endorsements - is that an example of the premis: "fake it 'till ya make it"?

MitchM - by MitchM
Huh???

I don't know if I'm speaking for anyone else here (maybe or maybe not): Please, please, please, write in a manner such that we can all understand what the heck you're trying to say!
That is an uncalled for flagrant flame, and I used the tool here to report it. If the moderator chooses to delete it, blame me. If not, at least I'm stating my opinion. - by Joe Closer
Then come those who deem themselves sales coaches with the hyped acolades and inflated endorsements - is that an example of the premis: "fake it 'till ya make it"?
Whenever I heard "Fake it until you make it" I thought of act confident if you want to be confident but I know what you're talking about MitchM. - by BossMan
That is an uncalled for flagrant flame, and I used the tool here to report it. If the moderator chooses to delete it, blame me. If not, at least I'm stating my opinion.
Dude! Chill!

A request for intelligible posting is not a flame! - by Skip Anderson
I agree with Skip. I found it difficult to follow too. - by Gold Calling
"Whenever I heard "Fake it until you make it" I thought of act confident if you want to be confident but I know what you're talking about MitchM." -- BossMan

That's the distinction I make, BossMan. They are not one in the same. Some who have posted on my thread blur that distinction.

MitchM - by MitchM
I agree with Skip. I found it difficult to follow too.
Do you agree with how he has just addressed a fellow forum member? A yes or no will suffice, Gold. - by Joe Closer
Dude! Chill!

A request for intelligible posting is not a flame!
Skip, I believe you are continuing to flame.

Aside from expressing that, which I followed with using the tool that the moderator has asked be used in such cases, there has not been one instance of my getting personal with you on this forum. With ONE exception--the fact that I praised the quality of your blog.

BUT...I disagreed with you on a post. I pointed out what I considered a false premise you used in an interesting discussion you were involved with another member. The premise was the universality of the needs/wants discussions in selling which you implied. Eventually, after debating it, you reversed yourself and admitted that it wasn't necessarily a universal component.

It was a discussion on the nature of selling. There are agreements and disagreements in such discussions, or this site would become boring.

You seem to be so uncomfortable with someone disagreeing with you, that you allude to attacks that never took place, and references that were never made. It has reached a point where you are being condescending to others here, simply because they have other beliefs. That is not for me to deal with. I have reported what I believe are flames, and I'll abide by the moderator's decision.

In the meantime, as one who certainly uses a fictitious handle here like the majority, I respectfully ask you never to refer to me as "Dude" again. - by Joe Closer
The premise for discussion:

Fake it 'till ya make it is becomming the law-of-the sales land. Maybe it always has been that way. I see it, I hear it, I read it.

Sales coaching/mentoring is big at it. Get a site, write in some copy that makes it look like DaGuru has arrived with acolades and a history of success - and you're off to make your millions.

Salesmen are big at it. Everything is great, fantastic, fine, top-of-the-world. Well, you don't need negative thinking in your face do you?

My unscientific amateurish opinion is that this is neither the high nor the low road to success. -- me
------------------------
Perhaps poorly worded that is how I began this thread. From this came digressions and direct replies to the premise of the thread.

Here are some examples of faking it 'till you make it:

"I've got some major sales with some major players in the making right now." when in fact nothing right now is happening.

"I earned close to a six figure income last year selling . . ." when in fact the earnings were closer to a four figure income.

"INNrT used my Emotional Intelligence Skill-Growing services in improving its employee productivity and self-esteem," when in fact I had a meeting over a couple of beers with my cousin who owns the company and I visited the plant once and talked to a bunch of guys at lunch.

"Last year WingDingDong rated our Auto #1 in consumer satisfaction for the third straight year." even though no one in the industry pays any attention to WingDingDong and the survey it does to sell advertising to auto dealers.

MitchM - by MitchM
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