Closes are for shysters and charlatans

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Calling

Now we have the Internet complete with salespractices.com and youtube.com. The method of passing on skills has changed but selling really hasn't.

Did you mean salespractice.com?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Calling

...when we deal with people we have to deal with the human condition and all of its many variations. It is just that we cannot get too clinical about selling. Skills exist for a reason. Because really smart people for centuries have been figuring out the art of selling and passing it along.

Spot on, Gold.

In the sales training I offer, it is important for me to win over the participants so that I have a shot at influencing them. Just as in selling, sometimes I succeed and sometimes I don't. But one thing is very apparent to me after providing sales training for quite a long time: some people want to expand their scope of knowledge and some don't. Those that do, drink it all in and then figure out what to use, what to dismiss, and what to modify. Those that don't just let it fly by them.

Of course, I'm not saying I have all the answers, or that any sales expert or trainer or veteran salesperson does. But one of the qualities of top sales performers is a passion for constant improvement. And improvement has to occur at the behavioral level, not just in theory. Until sales behaviors change, sales will not improve. Experience alone does not improve sales performance, except when that experience leads to a modification of sales behavior (sales behavior = sales skills).

I'm aware of the large number of participants in this forum that are passionate about improving their sales skills, and I think it's fantastic.

Skip Anderson

Gold, I think you misunderstood. My quip about "coming at me" was not directed at you.

I tend to make fun of myself because I don't take myself all that seriously. I said it in jest because I knew I was going to express an opinion that many here would not share.

But...I do take selling seriously

I'm happy that my posts interest you. But please indulge me when I say this. I know the selling game cold. In most discussions here, I could take either side of an issue and run with it...and embellish it for that matter. But I have made a personal choice to only express what my experience has shown me to be valid or true.

One comment on your post. I had mentioned "mutual trust and respect". You addressed that by referring to "warming up to". They are not at all the same.

Joe, are you saying that in my example, the two copier sales people, who perhaps both had enough level of "mutual trust and respect" with the prospect to get the sale and one did, BECAUSE HE CLOSED, IS NOT VALID?

And, please, I am not taking this personally. Just talking sales with another (actually two other - you and Skip) pro sales people.

Regardless of the words I took to make my point. The point is; there are times when the close is critical to a sale, even if you beleive the sale's foundation should carry the sale (which it should if it can) ... because it doesn't always work that way.

Can we detract from the importance of knowing how to close just because we are masters at building the foundation of the sale? That is like saying there are not times when the close is what gets the sale. Is this your position?

Hey, in my example, which I wrote after mid night I beleive, I may have used a slightly incorrect application of trust and friendship but this does not change the fact that no matter how good you are there are times when the close is critcal.

I felt so strongly about this thread this morning that I took the time to read it to one of the most experienced sales people on the planet, my 79 year old father.

While it was nice to have him say "well written" he brought up something "that most sales people forget", which is powerful indeed. It is about human nature. And it is called buyer reluctance.

No one wants to be sold but people like to buy. However, those same people quite often do not like making decisions.

Rather than me going on to explain this from a sales trainer’s perspective, why don’t I just leave it there and start a new debate.

Under what circumstance is the close critical if at all? What do each of you think? I have mentioned three so far (actually my dad brought up the last one but he does not come on forums);

-Buyer Reticence
- Buyer Reluctance
- a dead heat with competition

I too believe that the close is a non event most often in sales. I am just as certain that is not always the case but welcome different points of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Calling

Joe, are you saying that in my example, the two copier sales people, who perhaps both had enough level of "mutual trust and respect" with the prospect to get the sale and one did, BECAUSE HE CLOSED, IS NOT VALID?

And, please, I am not taking this personally. Just talking sales with another (actually two other - you and Skip) pro sales people.

Regardless of the words I took to make my point. The point is; there are times when the close is critical to a sale, even if you beleive the sale's foundation should carry the sale (which it should if it can) ... because it doesn't always work that way.

Can we detract from the importance of knowing how to close just because we are masters at building the foundation of the sale? That is like saying there are not times when the close is what gets the sale. Is this your position?

Hey, in my example, which I wrote after mid night I beleive, I may have used a slightly incorrect application of trust and friendship but this does not change the fact that no matter how good you are there are times when the close is critcal.

Yes, there are times when a "close", as an act of volition by the seller is called for. It usually happens in those "pregnant silence" instances, where the client becomes non-expressive, but the agreements are apparently in place. Closing then, is a matter of breaking the silence.

But I want to clarify that so it is not confused with the old J. Douglas Edwards maxim. "He who talks first loses." was taught in reference to AFTER a "closing question" has been asked.

The distinction is vital.

So, to understand my "position", with regard to that question, you have to clearly undertand that Closing, as an act of volition, which could be vital in some circumstances, is different from the natural closing occurrence resulting from a well executed selling process.

When you study and learn any field, with the objective of mastering it, you have to be able to see the differences between one thing and another. That is why it's important to clarify what we mean when we use standard terms and words.

I believe you see "closing" as a thing we do. I see it as an occurrence that is derived from a larger picture.

Gold, the concept of Buyer Reticence that your father is trying to teach you is what I described, perhaps less appropriately as "pregnant silence".

That...more than anything you have shared about him, shows me that your Dad has exceptional insight on selling.

Joe, my Dad has not taught me sales for more than 15 years. What you have read in this forum is my insight. And I thank you for the compliment.

As for;

Quote:

I believe you see "closing" as a thing we do. I see it as an occurrence that is derived from a larger picture.

This is a semantics discussion and really does not relate to sales. Put it one way or another, phrase it as some philosophy that is more complex or describe it more directly, this has little to do with what you or I practice.

I find it tiresome to discuss philosophy as if it changes what has to happen. Call closing "an occurrence that is derived from a larger picture" rather than "a thing we do", does that mean we don't do it? And, can you see the futility of sharing philosophy?

Once again, Joe, I never made reference to you or what you stated in this thread prior to you referencing what I wrote and trying to make a distinction. I only answered the question of Thomas. and I will state in your own words, at times closing; "by the seller is called for". Dern tootin it is, no matter your stated philosophy.

What my dad stated to me this morning, as I described my point of view in the forum to him on the phone was about closing and was his first input through me. It simply adds to all I included about the importance of closing in some sales calls. His point is perhaps the simplest way of looking at the same thing, what we call - buyer reluctance, which I did not describe in detail in the forum, and why closing is an important skill.

What I had described as Buyer Reticence came from my own experiences.

Interestingly, neither Reluctance nor Reticence is in my view are the same as pregnant silence, rather they are descriptions of the very nature of the human condition of the prospect - if I can put it that way!

Your use of pregnant silence is an issue of timing. If I am understanding you.

He who talks first looses, yes, this is what Edwards used very dramatically to get sales people to shut up (and rightly so). To emphasis, he actually screamed "shut up" during seminars!

There is simply no way anyone can claim that closing is not a required skill. Now, this subject is beyond well cooked, it is burnt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Calling

And, since he and I rarely talk sales training until recently, as a result of my wasting a lot of time in this forum, I only related those experiences to him last night even though they were 15 or 17 years ago.

It is my opinion that time spent helping those in need isn't time wasted. If this website gets anywhere near the traffic I suspect it does then thousands of salespeople who visit, but do not necessarily register or post, are reading and benefiting from posts by you, Skip, Pat, AZ and others. There is a lot of bad information out there about how to sell and a lot of salespeople struggling to put the pieces together. Thanks to you and others for making a difference.

Houston, you are a good man!

By the way, there are 1534 registered users of the site, approximately 48% have posted. But, you are probably right, many come and read without signing up.

And everyone needs to know what is misinformation about sales.

Closes are for shysters and charlatans

Closing the Sale Forum