Closes are for shysters and charlatans

Here is a quote from a new book I'm reading. What do you think of it?

-Thomas

Great question, Thomas.

Here's my opinion:

The author you quoted apparently thinks that "closing" and "honesty/integrity" are opposites. They are not opposites. Closing is about completing a sale with a prospect. Completing a sale with a prospect is not anti-honest, nor is it anti-integrity. The best sales performers in the sales profession have high integrity and high honesty, and they close (complete) sales transactions - lots of them. "Closing" is about being a leader, not about about being a forcer. Everyone enjoys a good leader.

I think the author is confusing "closing" with "aggressive behavior." -Skip Anderson

Thomas - here is what I think (for whatever value you may feel my opinion is worth) ... take that book and throw in into the trash can.

There are so many reasons why this author is missing the mark that it is just clearly not an influence you want in your career. In my opinion this author uses a direct marketing technique known as "Sleazy Tabloid Headlines" to get noticed and sell books. This is kind of like those trashy tabloids on the way out of a supermarket that say "Tom Cruise's son is an alien!"

Here are just a few things that are way off base with this comment;

(1) As Skip mentioned, closing is not the same as lack of integrity.

(2) Sales do CLOSE, as in a real estate transaction is CLOSED.

To have a CLOSE take place in the eyes of the law both money must change hands and services or goods must be provided.

However, as a sales practice or technique, "any question you ask, the answer to which confirms the prospect wants your product" is a closing question. Once this professional definition is established, how does the following show lack of integrity? "Would you like us to deliver that Friday or is one day next week more convenient?" Or, is the next example bad for either the prospect or the sales person? "Is there any reason why we can't get the paperwork out of the way?"

Calvin said it perfectly; "As if a buyer, who doesn't want what you have, will change his mind because of a close? Please! What salesperson thinks that?"

(3) Sales people do not convince. This is a very, very poor assumption of those who have not been well trained (or mislead). I can see how this can be misconstrued but, honestly, no one can really convince a buyer to buy. Yes, we have influence over people but we are not in the brain washing business.

If we were brain washers then the statement; "He could sell snowballs to Eskimos" would be true. But we are not. And there is so much business out there that there is no need to even try to sell to a prospect who does not have a real need for our product or service.

Yes, it is true, there are unscrupulous sales people. There are also pushy sales people who don't get it and end up giving us, the real pros in a serious profession, a bad name. But just because there are bad actors (this is an expression, not a put down of the acting profession) does not mean the sales industry is slimy or that sales techniques are less than totally professional.

(4) There are selling situations where there is little difference between you and the competition. In these situations you better ask for the business, if you do not and the other sales person does he/she will be taking their significant other out on the town with the commission check, not you. And, there was no reason why you could not have had the experience of winning that business instead of someone else. Remember; "if not you then who?"

Need I go on? I could ... instead of more reasons how about this;

Books and authors like this one are successful (to a certain degree). What they do is prey upon the minds of people who are not really sure yet that this industry is a great one. Those who end up being preyed upon are good people who are, for whatever reason, second guessing what they do or a little unsure of themselves at the time and they clutch for straws to save themselves from feeling they are in a slimy industry or doing anything wrong.

What is wrong with this method of selling books/materials is that it definitely hurts all of us. It does not put an end to the blemish on our industry, is prolongs this negativity. As some become deceived and themselves become deceivers. Interestingly, it is the deceived that are more dangerous, as you cannot tell a liar or a misleader when they do not know they are misleading!

Earl Nightingale sold more motivational training than anyone else in history. Ask yourself, Would he use this technique to sell a book or tape? I suggest the answer is no. Why would we need to be less than integral to sell information when we can sell an unlimited amount of training easily and not delve into the few skeletons hiding in the back of the closet of what should be revered as the greatest industry in the world?

I cannot blame you for asking about the quote Thomas. I can see that it did not sit right with you. And, I am sure, you have learned what author not to read in the future, which is a wholesome benefit from this experience. Perhaps you can get your money back?

"It is an ill wind indeed that blows no good." We all should thank Thomas for saving us $20 ... glad I won't be buying that source of obviously useless information! -Gold Calling

Here is my sleazy tabloid headline;

"Brain wash all of your prospects into breaking open their wallets and giving away their families' savings so you can get rich while others wonder what happened!"

As if ... thmbdn2;

Please, excuse my sarcasm, it is rare for me to display in such an awesome place as this forum. It is just that I cannot stand aside and allow that kind of crap to be passed on to the innocent. -Gold Calling

Gold! What a rant!

...and you're right on.

Saying you shouldn't close (or complete) a sale is like saying there's something ethically wrong with selling goods and services in a free market economy. Selling is an honorable profession. There are honorable people who sell and dishonorable people who sell, but that distinction has nothing to do with "closing".

Skip Anderson -Skip Anderson

OK...but please come at me one at a time.

I don't take back my disagreement with the book author's choice of words......BUT..

I believe that "closing" is the least important component in the selling process. -Joe Closer

To be honest, JC, I wasn't directing my comments at you, I wasn't even aware of your feeling, I was just commenting on the general thread topic.

Not to get us off topic in this thread, but I would be interested in knowing what you believe are more important components in the selling process than closing. Thanks...

Skip Anderson -Skip Anderson

Fair enough question. But first I need to say that I don't look upon selling in the same linear process that it's most often taught.

Closing is a natural result of the experience that takes place between buyer and seller. So I value the creation of a good experience above everything else.

But the experience is not a component itself. It is more a complex of successful execution of components.

I'll name three.

First, Agreement. Agreement comes early in a successful sales conversation, contrary to what a lot of people believe. It is then built upon throughout...always present.

Second, the Qualifying process which is often a disqualfying process. (Keep in mind that all selling "systems" are really time management systems in conversational form.)

Third, Attitudal Identification. This is the process of being able to identify the existence or degree of mutual trust and respect.

I hope that suffices to answer your question. I'm tired and I'm going to bed. -Joe Closer

Yah, Skip. It is important that true leaders like ourselves pass this on. Ours is a great industry with amazing people in it that do what they do in spite of a ridiculous image that surrounds us, even within the industry. WE can't let it stop us. We are champions, not only in the sales arena but as leaders in the sales training arena, it is up to us to put a solid stop to serious BS.

If we don't do it (and I don't specifically mean Skip, he knows), it won't get done.

It will never cease to bother me that crap is circulated around and passed of as expertise to mislead those who don't have the experiences yet to know better. We - in our small way - Cannot let that happen. -Gold Calling

Hey, Joe Closer, I am having trouble figuring out why your post, 2nd from the last, said "come at me one at a time". My comments were not directed at you personally or what you stated in the thread. My references were to Skip and Calvin, with advice to Thomas, who was good enough to share the passage that tells us not to buy that book. And Skip simply quoted me.

Joe, listen, I read your posts with great interest. It is very clear that you are a student of sales. Very clear indeed. And, that takes time and serious commitment, which I commend you for. However ... please, I have to say certain things here.

Nothing I stated in my post, which Skip quoted, states that closing is the most important part of the sale. However, it is the culmination of the sale. And how can we argue or understate that importance. To start with a simple comment; without sales, and a reasonable amount of them, we do not survive, that's what makes us and what we do so incredible.

Here is what, well, sort of gets me with your post - there are times when closing is very important element in a sale. There are equally more times when it is not so.

You can beleive in a perfect world that you built the foundation of the sale strongly with every selling situation, that closing is a minor part of each sale as a result but that is just not the case. And we can list examples of situations where it is really important, as my long post already alluded to.

I mentioned situations with very close competition. Take a Minolta copier and a Toshiba, where the technology is about the same. There are dealers with excellent service track records that are well established, this is not an issue. Both sales people bring in demos, the staff likes them both. But the buyer is not a friendly guy really, neither sales person sets up a relationship that would cause this personality type to want to do business with one over the other - just because of the buyers personality, not a lack of sales skills. Who gets the order?

Did you know going in that this buyer was not going to end up not being your best example of "mutual trust and respect"? No. Should you disqualify this potential sale because after you have spent the money to bring in a trial machine and the time to meet with the buyer twice and train their staff during the demo, that they just wouldn't warm up to you? Why, they didn't warm to your competitor either!

This happened to me early in my sales career. I was vested in the sale by the virtue of time and effort I committed, so I did not walk away. And I lost. I also asked the buyer why the other guy got the order, the answer is one of the great teaching moments in a sales career.

I will get back to that in a moment.

A friend of mine, who died about a decade ago, was telling me about a girl he new in high school in his senior year. She was gorgeous, he had the real hots for her, he took her out but she ended up with another guy. My deceased buddy then asked her why at school one day, the answer was essentially the same as what the buyer told me!

Both had to do with closing the sale.

Now, I do not intend to enter into a debate about premarital sex but my friend lost out because he was too shy to close the deal (and I will just leave it at that). He told me, since that day, he never lost out for that reason ever again. Sure as I am typing this post, I can tell you that ol' Fast Eddy (as he was known), got a few slaps in his face before he passed on at the age of 42 but he also "closed the deal" more than his average competitor (if I can pout it that way).

Was Fast Eddy ever in a race with a "competitor" again, I can't say. I know that was not the only way he "won the sale" because I was with him one New Year's Eve and saw another example of why you sometimes need to close. And why it (closing) is not always just a natural result of the sale.

Are you wondering why I lost my copier sale? I will tell you. The guy was last in. He told the buyer "I am not leaving till you give me the order!" And he got it. I could have but he got it.

Was I ever in a race with another competitor. Well, unlike Fast Eddy's life, this I can answer. Yes, several times. And at least one more time I lost that I know of. But this time because I had a machine that was higher priced and did not offer any features the buyer needed over my competition's machine.

I have been in selling situation unlike the "race with the competitor" I have described above in three ways. I could go on and on with real life examples. I can also tell you about disqualifying buyers I probably could have closed but did not feel I wanted as clients.

What I am trying to say is - in real life, there is no cut and dry. Things are not one way, black and white, Instead there are many shades of gray. And, when we deal with people we have to deal with the human condition and all of its many variations. None of this has much to do with the book quote. It is just that we cannot get too clinical about selling. Skills exist for a reason. Because really smart people for centuries have been figuring out the art of selling and passing it along.

All of us need to get off our high horses about the way selling is and what we beleive for this reason. We are just the last generation of selling practitioners, Johnny-come-lately-s if you will!

Sure, salesmanship was passed on by word of mouth first. Finally by scribe (Socrates), then in print, then on LP recordings, starting with old 78's. And finally by audio tapes, CD's and DVD's. Now we have the Internet complete with salespractices.com and youtube.com. The method of passing on skills has changed but selling really hasn't.

Closing is a skill not because it is more important that other skills or should be compared to them but because it is a skill that is important all on its own. If you are to master our profession, first you must master this skill (as well as all the others). Best of luck always. -Gold Calling

Did you mean salespractice.com? msnwnk; -Admin-Asst

Spot on, Gold.

In the sales training I offer, it is important for me to win over the participants so that I have a shot at influencing them. Just as in selling, sometimes I succeed and sometimes I don't. But one thing is very apparent to me after providing sales training for quite a long time: some people want to expand their scope of knowledge and some don't. Those that do, drink it all in and then figure out what to use, what to dismiss, and what to modify. Those that don't just let it fly by them.

Of course, I'm not saying I have all the answers, or that any sales expert or trainer or veteran salesperson does. But one of the qualities of top sales performers is a passion for constant improvement. And improvement has to occur at the behavioral level, not just in theory. Until sales behaviors change, sales will not improve. Experience alone does not improve sales performance, except when that experience leads to a modification of sales behavior (sales behavior = sales skills).

I'm aware of the large number of participants in this forum that are passionate about improving their sales skills, and I think it's fantastic.

Skip Anderson -Skip Anderson

Gold, I think you misunderstood. My quip about "coming at me" was not directed at you.

I tend to make fun of myself because I don't take myself all that seriously. I said it in jest because I knew I was going to express an opinion that many here would not share.

But...I do take selling seriously

I'm happy that my posts interest you. But please indulge me when I say this. I know the selling game cold. In most discussions here, I could take either side of an issue and run with it...and embellish it for that matter. But I have made a personal choice to only express what my experience has shown me to be valid or true.

One comment on your post. I had mentioned "mutual trust and respect". You addressed that by referring to "warming up to". They are not at all the same. -Joe Closer

Joe, are you saying that in my example, the two copier sales people, who perhaps both had enough level of "mutual trust and respect" with the prospect to get the sale and one did, BECAUSE HE CLOSED, IS NOT VALID?

And, please, I am not taking this personally. Just talking sales with another (actually two other - you and Skip) pro sales people.

Regardless of the words I took to make my point. The point is; there are times when the close is critical to a sale, even if you beleive the sale's foundation should carry the sale (which it should if it can) ... because it doesn't always work that way.

Can we detract from the importance of knowing how to close just because we are masters at building the foundation of the sale? That is like saying there are not times when the close is what gets the sale. Is this your position?

Hey, in my example, which I wrote after mid night I beleive, I may have used a slightly incorrect application of trust and friendship but this does not change the fact that no matter how good you are there are times when the close is critcal. -Gold Calling

I felt so strongly about this thread this morning that I took the time to read it to one of the most experienced sales people on the planet, my 79 year old father.

While it was nice to have him say "well written" he brought up something "that most sales people forget", which is powerful indeed. It is about human nature. And it is called buyer reluctance.

No one wants to be sold but people like to buy. However, those same people quite often do not like making decisions.

Rather than me going on to explain this from a sales trainer’s perspective, why don’t I just leave it there and start a new debate.

Under what circumstance is the close critical if at all? What do each of you think? I have mentioned three so far (actually my dad brought up the last one but he does not come on forums);

-Buyer Reticence
- Buyer Reluctance
- a dead heat with competition

I too believe that the close is a non event most often in sales. I am just as certain that is not always the case but welcome different points of view. -Gold Calling

Yes, there are times when a "close", as an act of volition by the seller is called for. It usually happens in those "pregnant silence" instances, where the client becomes non-expressive, but the agreements are apparently in place. Closing then, is a matter of breaking the silence.

But I want to clarify that so it is not confused with the old J. Douglas Edwards maxim. "He who talks first loses." was taught in reference to AFTER a "closing question" has been asked.

The distinction is vital.

So, to understand my "position", with regard to that question, you have to clearly undertand that Closing, as an act of volition, which could be vital in some circumstances, is different from the natural closing occurrence resulting from a well executed selling process.

When you study and learn any field, with the objective of mastering it, you have to be able to see the differences between one thing and another. That is why it's important to clarify what we mean when we use standard terms and words.

I believe you see "closing" as a thing we do. I see it as an occurrence that is derived from a larger picture. -Joe Closer

Gold, the concept of Buyer Reticence that your father is trying to teach you is what I described, perhaps less appropriately as "pregnant silence".

That...more than anything you have shared about him, shows me that your Dad has exceptional insight on selling. -Joe Closer

Joe, my Dad has not taught me sales for more than 15 years. What you have read in this forum is my insight. And I thank you for the compliment.

As for; This is a semantics discussion and really does not relate to sales. Put it one way or another, phrase it as some philosophy that is more complex or describe it more directly, this has little to do with what you or I practice.

I find it tiresome to discuss philosophy as if it changes what has to happen. Call closing "an occurrence that is derived from a larger picture" rather than "a thing we do", does that mean we don't do it? And, can you see the futility of sharing philosophy?

Once again, Joe, I never made reference to you or what you stated in this thread prior to you referencing what I wrote and trying to make a distinction. I only answered the question of Thomas. and I will state in your own words, at times closing; "by the seller is called for". Dern tootin it is, no matter your stated philosophy.

What my dad stated to me this morning, as I described my point of view in the forum to him on the phone was about closing and was his first input through me. It simply adds to all I included about the importance of closing in some sales calls. His point is perhaps the simplest way of looking at the same thing, what we call - buyer reluctance, which I did not describe in detail in the forum, and why closing is an important skill.

What I had described as Buyer Reticence came from my own experiences.

Interestingly, neither Reluctance nor Reticence is in my view are the same as pregnant silence, rather they are descriptions of the very nature of the human condition of the prospect - if I can put it that way!

Your use of pregnant silence is an issue of timing. If I am understanding you.

He who talks first looses, yes, this is what Edwards used very dramatically to get sales people to shut up (and rightly so). To emphasis, he actually screamed "shut up" during seminars!

There is simply no way anyone can claim that closing is not a required skill. Now, this subject is beyond well cooked, it is burnt. -Gold Calling

It is my opinion that time spent helping those in need isn't time wasted. If this website gets anywhere near the traffic I suspect it does then thousands of salespeople who visit, but do not necessarily register or post, are reading and benefiting from posts by you, Skip, Pat, AZ and others. There is a lot of bad information out there about how to sell and a lot of salespeople struggling to put the pieces together. Thanks to you and others for making a difference. sn; -Houston

Houston, you are a good man!

By the way, there are 1534 registered users of the site, approximately 48% have posted. But, you are probably right, many come and read without signing up.

And everyone needs to know what is misinformation about sales. -Gold Calling

What agreement Joe? -Gilbert

Simply put, an agreement reflected in apparent attitude, or words, to move forward because of a mutual interest in each other, or in an issue. When that agreement deepens, the opportunity to do business increases.

I know I said "simply put", but it is complex.

Some people will understand. The majority will not. That's just the way it is. It helps me a great deal that most--not all-- of my competition is in the majority. -Joe Closer

Is there a training program for this or is that something that came with experience? -Gilbert

My two cents: JC, I think agreements are very powerful in selling, I agree with you on that. But I don't think that "an agreement reflected in apparent attitude" is an agreement at all.

I see salespeople all the time who waste time with prospects who had an "apparent attitude" to buy. For instance, I do training in industries that sell in the home (such as home improvements, for instance), and many of these calls require two calls: an initial call, then time for the salesperson to create the design or a proposal on his/her own, then a second call to present the design or proposal and close the deal. Maybe my opinion on this is biased by the type of sales industries I serve.

I train salespeople to ask the following question near the end of the first appointment, but after a follow-up appointment has been scheduled:

"When we get together next week to go over your design, if you love what I've done for you, and if the price is acceptable to you, is there any reason you would not move forward with the project when we meet next week?"

If they answer "yes", that's a pretty solid agreement. Not that prospects don't break it, of course, but it's much more solid than an "apparent attitude" to purchase.

[If they answer "no", then the salesperson has an opportunity and obligation to probe further to figure out what's going on].

Skip Anderson -Skip Anderson

"NO!" and the salesman says; "Oh, why not?"

As intuitive as we become in our careers as sales people, we are never going to be mind readers. That is what questions are for.

Again, Skip, very well stated. You are the personification of professionalism! -Gold Calling

Thank you for the kind words, GC. -Skip Anderson

Interestingly, I don't see anyone talking about closing throughout the sales cycle - versus - "asking for the order".

Closing is asking for the order but how do SRs:
1. get the next meeting?
2. obtain concurrance on applicable features/benefits?
3. gain agreement on pricing, terms, etc.?
4. move the selling process along?

Closing is not simply a question asked, the answer to which is filled out on an order blank (example). Astute closers are working their magic throughout the cycle and may have closed 10 or 12 times thru the adventure.

Good luck & Good selling!
Pat -OUTSource Sales

I seriously doubt anyone on the forum will disagree with your post OUTSource Sales.

"Any question asked the answer to which confirms the order" is the concluding one of those 10 or 12 affirmations.

Anyway, the thread started about a quote in a book that I am sure you will agree is quote odd (to say the least). -Gold Calling

As mentioned in another thread, I don't spend my time reading so-called "business books". This quote is simply another justification: everyone is an expert with the singular interest of selling more books.

The gray-hair's out there feel that these authors can put anything into print. The downfall: the rookies who see the quotes, absorb the content. For an illustration of implied the wasted cycles, look at the length of this thread!

That said, it's a healthy forum which I encourage whole heartedly.

The author seems to imply that those who close, do so with much customer angst created. I'd defy the so-called expert to spend a day in my patch! Clearly, he/she doesn't know what they're talking about - OR - the quote is intended to sensational-ize and thereby grab attention to the author.

I'd be more interested in hearing about the non-closers out there since the implication is that they NEVER ask for the order:
1. how does the customer know where they are in the cycle (if the benefits of the offering don't jump out of the SRs briefcase)?
2. how does the SR extend the selling cycle?
3. what happens at the end of the (won or lost) sales cycle?

Without ANY desire to read the book, I wonder if the original poster has any insight to offer wrt what follows the quote? Perhaps the next sentence was "...only kidding, closing is a tried and true approach in the real world of salesmanship..."!

Good luck & Good selling!
Pat -OUTSource Sales

Wonderboy, "there's no magic" involved. If you present successfully and the order shakes-out at the end, congratulations!

However, it seems a little assumptive to believe that ALL of your prospects walk thru to an order. When that happens, how do you get the business? Or, do you walk away at that point?

The ability to present successfully is predicated on having closed throughout the process to that point. How do you arrange meetings without a closing question (... is Monday or Tuesday better for you)? In order to get all of the detail required to do a meaningful presentation which responds to the expressed needs, you must be closing throughout.

I wouldn't try to bring you over to the "dark-side" but I'd strongly suggest some 2-man calls with someone who is an adept closer might be an eye-opener for you.

In my Xerox days, there were a couple of guys on the floor who worked well with me. In one instance, we'd gone to Leesburg together for basic training (PSS1 at the time) and he was agressive ex-professional lacrosse player. We'd push each other to make that extra call and in those calls we'd really get everything on-the-table. This approach ALWAYS yielded results because one of us wouldn't take 'no'. It was truly "entertaining" at times!

We presented only when a proof source was required and presentation was the best approach. AND, when we did present, we ALWAYS prefaced the presentation with a close (eg. "... if we can meet those objectives during the presentation, do we have a basis for doing business ...").

Good luck & Good selling!
Pat -OUTSource Sales

Pat, I improved to the point where all of my sales do automatically close themselves out. All I had to do was to give the offer and my prospects bought. No special closing phrases required.

When I entered sales paradise, I learned to recognize who my prospects were which strengthened my sales tremendously. The system I developed is 100% reliable (the only way my system wouldn't work is through sabotage which is why I'm projecting over 90% success with a large population of trainees).

Please keep contributing Pat. -Wonderboy

Wonderboy, no disrespect intended so please don't be offended by what I'm going to write. I've read your posts before and in my opinion, for what it's worth, I think you're way out of your league in many of these discussions.

My perception is that your responses have been empty and almost always point to some mystery system you've developed that is the champion of all systems. My perception is that your posts lack the depth indicative of someone who possesses such knowledge or system.

I bring this up because I think empty posts like that detract and can sidetrack good discussions.

No response required. -Marcus

Wonderboy ...

So through magic methodology a prospect's natural reluctance - part of some people's human condition - suddenly disappears so they can buy from you without a closing question. WOW.

I want to go to your sales training school. I would pay you $100,000 for a weekend if you could teach that. In fact, the total elimination of buyer reluctance and buyer reticence by your breakthrough presentation skills would be the biggest news in salesmanship since Socrates had scribed the first information we know of about human influence!

How did you do it? What was the catalyst that allowed you, I assume without the resources of say XEROX, to uncover something that the smartest sales people and influence-rs in history, including Socrates and Plato, Earl Nightingale and Peter Burke, did not discover?

I am impressed (or will be if you can manage to explain it so we can understand you).

Outsource ...

Bang on again. As I stated in my first post, the sensationalizing is what I referred to as "Sleazy Tabloid Headline", a technique known well in direct marketing to grab attention.

Personally I think there is no OR in this case. In other words both things in what you stated are true. The author does not know sales and used sensationalizing.

TO ALL ...

Let's say Wonderboy really is a wonder, that what he says is true. Does that affect the validity of the quote? Isn't it still hogwash - even if wonderboy can close without dealing with the most common human traits - that does not make the rest of us that do close shysters, does it. -Gold Calling

closing the sale is part of being a profecional
who ever think that closing the sale is bad practice is a green pea -vegamario

Welcome to the discussion, vegemario.

Yours was the 41st post in this discussion/debate about the impact of closing in sales. Note that there hasn't been a single example of what a close would sound like. -Joe Closer

Does that have meaning to you Joe? -Houston

Gee, when I read the topic of the thread I see a request for opinions, not a request for how to compose a closing questions. -Gold Calling

Read it again.

The topic's title is "Closes are for shysters and chalatans."

I'll bet you think that statement is ludicrous.

I think it is, too, and I'll bet most people here think it's ludicrous. But as you can see, a discussion began with different points of view on the relative value of The Close in selling. A worthwhile topic.

It's common in discussions to give examples to demonstrate a point. It is uncommon here.

That was the reason for my observation. If a prospect asked for an example with regard to a statement I made, I would expect to be prepared to deliver one. In so doing so, I believe it would give more meaning to the sales interview/conversation. Likewise this discussion. -Joe Closer

There is no need whatsoever to give examples to approve or disprove what's expressed by that quotation, which has been very well proved as false already. -Gold Calling

Here's a close for you:

"Do you want to buy it?"

But, there are other threads within the "Closing The Sale" section of SalesPractice dedicated to discussing various ways to close, so I don't think it's wise to derail this thread to discuss specific "closes".

Skip Anderson -Skip Anderson

Well, experience yes, but I've been a student of sales because it's my livelihood.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no formal training program that focuses specifically on what I described. However, I have had an opportunity to study the work of David Sandler, and his system seemed to have some things in common with the thoughts I shared.

Most traditional sales training programs would not cover that.

The term Apparent Attitude was coined by me. The people who worked for me when I conducted in-house training had the highest conversion ratio in our industry in the geographic area we competed in. My company continues to hold that distinction, and I remain very active in sales myself.

It goes without saying that when you have extraordinary results, you are usually doing things different than the majority.

And that's a good thing. -Joe Closer

Skip, your sample close is pretty weak: "Here's a close for you: "Do you want to buy it?" ". In fact, because of the way in which it would be positioned, the SR would pretty much have painted him/herself into a corner.

If the response is "yes" it works BUT if it's a "no", what is a SR to do? (I know the answer but I'm a little concerned for rookies.)

It's almost a "question to ask low reactors" versus a closing question.

Good luck & Good selling!
Pat -OUTSource Sales

Pat, I thought it was weak, too.

I'm impressed with your in depth understanding in these discussions.

I have a question for you, Pat. Can you see the subtle difference if you were to modify those six words that the respondent provided to "Do you want to do this?" -Joe Closer

Post #8 did offer two examples of "closes". I had not read that entire post because of its length. -Joe Closer

Joe Closer, you asked me if I could see the subtle difference if we modified those six words:
1. "Do you want to buy it?" OR,
2. "Do you want to do this?"

When you're an experienced SR, you work to keep your options open. You also hope to keep your questioning as open as possible (versus closed probes which tend to get 'yes/no' responses). Unfortunately, what you're suggesting remains another 'closed probe' with the same ultimate corner being painted.

If the SR were extremely optimistic about this prospect, he might just pull out an order blank and begin asking questions the answers to which get written into the order:
1. "what's the correct billing address?"
2. "who should I put down as the contact for ordering supplies?"
3. "...shall we deliver on Tuesday or Wednesday, which is better for you?"
4. "who should I speak to about credit information?"

If this approach raises any eye-brows, you can always respond assumptively with, "... I'm filling in the order..." to which you might get, "...but I didn't say I was buying...".

You know the drill but never apologize for doing your job because you can always diminish his discomfort by, "... I'm certain that your SR's are out there selling your prospects much the same way as I'm selling to you..."!

Good luck & Good selling!
Pat -OUTSource Sales

I have to say that I think knowing about all of these closes is kind of like learning the scales in music or trick shots in tennis. It's great pulling one off, but in the same way a tennis player is very rarely going to have to hit a lob, facing the wrong way, between his legs, it is unlikely that you need to use the double puppy-dog peanut sandwich take-away close very often ;)
Of course you have to close to get the sale... that's what you're paid for. But tennis players will be playing basic forehands and backhands 95% of the time and likewise, if you have done your job properly asking openly and honestly to "go-ahead" or for the order will do the trick. It's useful to know a handful, but I really think this idea of memorising 99 closes goes back to the time of the hard sell when you just kept lobbing different closes back at the customer until he fell for one.
--
Merry Xmas
Mark Goodson
Real Life Selling -markg

Mark... In my opinion, a SALE results from a series of understandings or agreements that create a desire for the client to move forward. The differences with do you want to buy this versus do you want to do this, as mentioned earlier is another form of delivery mixed in with the idea of "closing" and is more than a subtle difference from MY POINT OF VIEW.

In my opinion, "Do you want to buy this?" might be an offer made in frustration, where a client is not being pinned down either from my own ineptitude or his playing games with me and would come after a suggestion such as "shall we do this?" which ALSO in my opinion is better than "Do YOU want to do this." Do YOU want to buy this is vastly more pointed.

I use EIRA to confront my clients potential for a sale.
Explore
Identify
Recommend
Agreement

I know some here who have seen this might be thinking that you need agreement that something you might offer might create a solution before coming in with a recommendation when looking at this for the first time and in fact that is what happens... "John, you said earlier that you could survive roughly 3 months by taking cash out of your company/Savings in the event you were not able to do the material and substantial requirements of your job and were thus disabled. I did record that correctly didn't I?"

John "Yeppers... beyond that I'd really be hurting".

SalesGuy "John, thinking out loud here, to cover your income one way or the other would cost you $5,000 a month right? One alternative available to you would be to have you sacrifice only the first 30 days of your savings while we pick up the rest after 60 days. What I mean by this is that with insurance, you have to lose it before we pay for it, so though we pick up day 31 and beyond, you won't get it back till the end of the month or about day 60. Make sense?

Something like this would only run you $250 a month today IF YOU'RE IN GOOD HEALTH and your After Tax Income will be protected till you'd retire. We can play with waiting periods and have checks start arriving at 90 or 120 days too for a little less, but how does this sound so far?

John will get into some discussion here with SalesGuy certainly and where SalesGuy has the opportunity to provide more insight.. such as the fact that if you're out for more than 90 days, your income requirements will most likely actually INCREASE and you might really miss your surplus funds. Things like cancer, stroke, and bypass operations can do this for you... which is why we also offer Critical Illness Insurance.

At some point in the discussion you're going to get positive or negative feedback and you deal with it one way or the other, but in my opinion, the phrase, "John, thinking out loud here..." is a request for discussion of your "offering" without getting into the "drama" of a so called close. You'll actually be able to discuss ALL of the points that would be objections later on in this discussion aimed at solving a problem. At the end of the discussion, more likely than not, you have a premium tolerance and a product that he feels will be another way around his current situation.

It is after a discussion like this, or several discussions, that we'll come back with a presentation which will include all of these litte notations we've made during our exploration/discovery phase.

Our presentations actually have OBSERVATION pages in which we present what our understandings are of his situation. WE ALSO CONTINUE TO GET AGREEMENT FROM HIM BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT PAGE.

We also have RECOMMENDATIONS based upon our previous agreements and lastly we have a SUMMARY which ties features and benefits of the recommendations to our observations.

This took longer to explain than do, but after all of this a "So John, whatdya think... shall we go ahead with this?" is the most likely form of request necessary for agreement... and my SALE. ;bg

Much Aloha... :cool: -rattus58

Wow, interesting thread. I am impressed with the amount of emotional energy it has spurred and more so with the level of professionalism generally shown on the forum.

Gold, Loved your original rant. Go man go. And you are correct, we do not know the original context of the quote in the book. Was it a marketing ploy ala Frank Rumbaskas or was it uninformed and inexperienced sales speaking?

From the text itself it appears that the author is responding to a general fear of sales people as the end all, be all of convincing and manipulating that if it ever existed could hardly survive today. From that perspective which is universally based on the sales person caring only about his own agenda, the quote makes sense. As mentioned however, that day is done.

Loved the rest of the rant too. The "close" in sales structure is simply some question that asks the buyer to make a choice of yes or no. One of the worst sales people I have ever paid a base salary too seemed to think it was not her job to ask closing questions, but to keep buying them meals and gifts until they felt so guilty they had to buy something. Very sad that she has been in sales for more than 20 years and never learned. Impressive though she still gets hired... (I inherited her, tried to train her and moved her on.) The point is becausee she never asked for a yes or a no, she ended up with a fat pipeline of worthless opportunities and failed at generating revenue.

I would suggest tossing the book as well. Look to a solutions selling model which builds value intentionally, and closes based on the real and actual value you bring the customer relative to their own dominant buying motive. Then, by the time you get to the close it is already decided.

BTW, my favorite closing question is "what would you like me to do now?" Whatever they answer guides my next steps but most of the time, by the second time I ask it, it is for the sale. -DaveB

It would seem that the author of your book there has been 'closed' and is experiencing some sort of catharsis by calling closers charlatans... As has been mentioned in several of the other responses, closing is a necessary step in the sales cycle. It's the close that feels like a 'technique' that gets people all riled up.

If you've done the job well, simply asking for the business will not come off as a technique or a ploy to get the target to do something they don't want to do. It's a natural step in the progression from prospect to customer that will enhance - not damage - the relationship. -BradfordLMoore

Mr. Moore, is it safe to say that you believe closing is a step in itself---distincly separate as an event? -Gary A Boye

DaveB, would you say that "the close" is always a single question? -Gary A Boye

Mr Boye -
Not necessarily a distinct and separate step as an event or separate meeting, but a distinct step in the sales process. My experience has told me that if I don't distinctly ask the customer to accept the proposal, to "sign on the dotted line" as it were, the chances of actually converting that prospect into a customer is pretty close to zero.

My experience has also taught me that this can be, but is not mandated to be, a separate meeting or event in the process, but a natural progression in the course of helping the customer choose my solution.

I suppose what this amounts to is this: if we're to be successful more often, with greater consistency and more productive results, we must make a concerted and intentional effort to ask the customer for the business or for the right to move forward in the process to the next logical step. I don't always close an order/deal when I close - sometimes it's on the next step in the sales process, the next meeting. I do this only by earning the right to take that next step, and only if I ask for it.

I hope this helps. Continued success!
Brad Moore -BradfordLMoore

How did we ever get to the term close? Sales is a process. In very basic terms you offer, you illustrate/demonstrate, and you ask for commitment. Snake oil stuff, the magic elixers... great stuff this, and if you want it, step in line.... now somewhere along the way, they learned to have someone move to stand in line first... that "commitment" (could be a partner), motivated others because of the firsts "validation" of the product.

Is the sale the result of a simple question... don't know.. could be, or a simple choice... red/blue... "shall we go ahead?" "What do you want to do?"... I heard/read here... tho that wouldn't be me.. I'd prefer a more positive/action question... "shall we do this...?"

But all of this has come after a series of agreements to fact along the way, and we're not selling elixers and oil... :)

Much Aloha... :cool: -rattus58

Just one last question on your thoughts prompted by what I excerpted above. What you describe seems to fall into the oft repeated axiom, "Ask for the order."

Are you giving that example as an example of "closing." In other words, is asking for the order synonymous with closing, in your opinion?

Thanks for all your clarifications. -Gary A Boye

Is it "facts" then, in your opinion, that salespeople should be seeking agreement with? Or are there agreements that loom larger? -Gary A Boye

Mr Boye - there are agreements to facts and opinions, feelings and instincts, each of which must be dealt with on the way to a close.

Also, as to whether asking for the order is the same as a close, the simple answer is 'yes'; though all closes are not the same as asking for the business. Sometimes we are simply closing on next steps. Additionally, asking for the order is by no means the only way to close a customer. There are many ways to obtain commitment from the prospect on the way to converting them to a customer. I have found, though, that a straightforward request, simply asking for the order, is the most effective close.

Much success,
Brad -BradfordLMoore

Of course its facts, but as Brad Pointed out, its feelings, opinions, wants and desires too. But things have to be true. An opinion is either fact or its just conversation. Feelings have to be real, or its just conversation. The fact is, you feel this way, have this opinion, and want this or that. If that is not fact, what is it?

Fact, reality, whatever you want to call it, we discussed sincerity earlier, if we are not sincere, what is the point of the conversation... right?

We're not debating, we're selling... and God Bless America...

Much Aloha... Tom :cool:

The forgoing opinions of ours represent the sum total of the other resident persona for which I, myself included, are those rendered by me. -rattus58

Would you say then that agreements on facts, feelings, opinions, wants, and desires are equally important to agreements to move forward or take the next step, often defined as commitments, with regard to closing? -Gary A Boye

Define Close.

Aloha... Tom :cool: -rattus58

That should be easy for this discussion. Let's use somebody's definition who you already agreed with--Mr. Moore. He said: "My experience has also taught me that this can be, but is not mandated to be, a separate meeting or event in the process, but a natural progression in the course of helping the customer choose my solution."

So my question remains: Would you say then that agreements on facts, feelings, opinions, wants, and desires are equally important to agreements to move forward or take the next step, often defined as commitments, with regard to closing?

Thanks for taking the time to further this exploration of the topic. -Gary A Boye

Agreements on facts, feelings, opinions, wants, and desires in my opinion are what lead to agreements to move forward with sales commitments.

Much Aloha... Tom :cool: -rattus58

Would you agree that what you stated above could shed some very important light on the topic of closing, particularly for those who have had the mindset that closing is a self contained event that takes place in a sales process? Would you also agree that your statement applies very much to the Conviction element in a sales process? -Gary A Boye

Ok.... don't go getting too far ahead of me. I'm not sure I've been charged yet... ;bg

My take is that you try to make a sale like you'd sight in your guns. If you sight in at 25 yards, 50, 75, and 100 yards, you've zeroed your rifle to hit right on target all along the way so that when you arrive at say 150 yards you're always in the black. Taking your first and only shot out of a cold barrel might wind up on paper, but rarely near the target.

Aloha... Tom :cool: -rattus58

'Closing' is a process. For example, we teach the use of a grid containing nine specific factors that must be present in order for the sale to close, and continually evaluating the sale against those nine factors. When all nine have been met to a sufficient degree then the sale will close. Every successful sales professional does this: continually moving the sale toward consummation.

I think that when you refer to "the close" you are referring to the point in the sales process when both parties recognize that it's time to consummate the transaction.

Some sales close themselves. When the prospect asks, "Do you take credit cards?" The sale has closed. (I guess that too is a single question, isn't it?)

More often however, we need to take an action that 'pushes the sale over the edge', and that action is usually a single statement or question.

I guess that's a long-winded way of saying 'yes', isn't it?

Dave Barnhart -DaveB

Hi Dave. Do any of the nine address the buyer recognizing and managing all of their own internal systemic issues that need to take place before they'll make a purchasing decision? -Jeff Blackwell

At SalesPractice, it is our intent to offer material that is congruent with that. We are discerning when it comes to bulleted lists because of the overabundance of lists that have been posted on this forum. We have viewed and looked very favorably upon closing progressions that contain less steps than nine, however.

Thank you for clarifying. -Gary A Boye

It's not nine steps. It is nine criteria that must be met. One of them, for example, is "Is our offering a better choice that any other choice available to the buyer, and is this understood by the buyer?".

Throughout the process the sale is measured against these nine factors and attention is given to those that are deficient. -DaveB