Closes are for shysters and charlatans

Here is a quote from a new book I'm reading. What do you think of it?

Quote:

"Closes are for shysters and charlatans who are out to make a quick buck at their customer's expense. Salespeople who deliver value through honesty and integrity never need to close sales."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

Here is a quote from a new book I'm reading. What do you think of it?

"Closes are for shysters and charlatans who are out to make a quick buck at their customer's expense. Salespeople who deliver value through honesty and integrity never need to close sales."

Great question, Thomas.

Here's my opinion:

The author you quoted apparently thinks that "closing" and "honesty/integrity" are opposites. They are not opposites. Closing is about completing a sale with a prospect. Completing a sale with a prospect is not anti-honest, nor is it anti-integrity. The best sales performers in the sales profession have high integrity and high honesty, and they close (complete) sales transactions - lots of them. "Closing" is about being a leader, not about about being a forcer. Everyone enjoys a good leader.

I think the author is confusing "closing" with "aggressive behavior."

05:26 PM

Thomas - here is what I think (for whatever value you may feel my opinion is worth) ... take that book and throw in into the trash can.

There are so many reasons why this author is missing the mark that it is just clearly not an influence you want in your career. In my opinion this author uses a direct marketing technique known as "Sleazy Tabloid Headlines" to get noticed and sell books. This is kind of like those trashy tabloids on the way out of a supermarket that say "Tom Cruise's son is an alien!"

Here are just a few things that are way off base with this comment;

(1) As Skip mentioned, closing is not the same as lack of integrity.

(2) Sales do CLOSE, as in a real estate transaction is CLOSED.

To have a CLOSE take place in the eyes of the law both money must change hands and services or goods must be provided.

However, as a sales practice or technique, "any question you ask, the answer to which confirms the prospect wants your product" is a closing question. Once this professional definition is established, how does the following show lack of integrity? "Would you like us to deliver that Friday or is one day next week more convenient?" Or, is the next example bad for either the prospect or the sales person? "Is there any reason why we can't get the paperwork out of the way?"

Calvin said it perfectly; "As if a buyer, who doesn't want what you have, will change his mind because of a close? Please! What salesperson thinks that?"

(3) Sales people do not convince. This is a very, very poor assumption of those who have not been well trained (or mislead). I can see how this can be misconstrued but, honestly, no one can really convince a buyer to buy. Yes, we have influence over people but we are not in the brain washing business.

If we were brain washers then the statement; "He could sell snowballs to Eskimos" would be true. But we are not. And there is so much business out there that there is no need to even try to sell to a prospect who does not have a real need for our product or service.

Yes, it is true, there are unscrupulous sales people. There are also pushy sales people who don't get it and end up giving us, the real pros in a serious profession, a bad name. But just because there are bad actors (this is an expression, not a put down of the acting profession) does not mean the sales industry is slimy or that sales techniques are less than totally professional.

(4) There are selling situations where there is little difference between you and the competition. In these situations you better ask for the business, if you do not and the other sales person does he/she will be taking their significant other out on the town with the commission check, not you. And, there was no reason why you could not have had the experience of winning that business instead of someone else. Remember; "if not you then who?"

Need I go on? I could ... instead of more reasons how about this;

Books and authors like this one are successful (to a certain degree). What they do is prey upon the minds of people who are not really sure yet that this industry is a great one. Those who end up being preyed upon are good people who are, for whatever reason, second guessing what they do or a little unsure of themselves at the time and they clutch for straws to save themselves from feeling they are in a slimy industry or doing anything wrong.

What is wrong with this method of selling books/materials is that it definitely hurts all of us. It does not put an end to the blemish on our industry, is prolongs this negativity. As some become deceived and themselves become deceivers. Interestingly, it is the deceived that are more dangerous, as you cannot tell a liar or a misleader when they do not know they are misleading!

Earl Nightingale sold more motivational training than anyone else in history. Ask yourself, Would he use this technique to sell a book or tape? I suggest the answer is no. Why would we need to be less than integral to sell information when we can sell an unlimited amount of training easily and not delve into the few skeletons hiding in the back of the closet of what should be revered as the greatest industry in the world?

I cannot blame you for asking about the quote Thomas. I can see that it did not sit right with you. And, I am sure, you have learned what author not to read in the future, which is a wholesome benefit from this experience. Perhaps you can get your money back?

"It is an ill wind indeed that blows no good." We all should thank Thomas for saving us $20 ... glad I won't be buying that source of obviously useless information!

Here is my sleazy tabloid headline;

"Brain wash all of your prospects into breaking open their wallets and giving away their families' savings so you can get rich while others wonder what happened!"

As if ...

Please, excuse my sarcasm, it is rare for me to display in such an awesome place as this forum. It is just that I cannot stand aside and allow that kind of crap to be passed on to the innocent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Calling

Thomas - here is what I think (for whatever value you may feel my opinion is worth) ... take that book and throw in into the trash can.

There are so many reasons why this author is missing the mark that it is just clearly not an influence you want in your career. In my opinion this author uses a direct marketing technique known as "Sleazy Tabloid Headlines" to get noticed and sell books. This is kind of like those trashy tabloids on the way out of a supermarket that say "Tom Cruise's son is an alien!"

Here are just a few things that are way off base with this comment;

(1) As Skip mentioned, closing is not the same as lack of integrity.

(2) Sales do CLOSE, as in a real estate transaction is CLOSED.

To have a CLOSE take place in the eyes of the law both money must change hands and services or goods must be provided.

However, as a sales practice or technique, "any question you ask, the answer to which confirms the prospect wants your product" is a closing question. Once this professional definition is established, how does the following show lack of integrity? "Would you like us to deliver that Friday or is one day next week more convenient?" Or, is the next example bad for either the prospect or the sales person? "Is there any reason why we can't get the paperwork out of the way?"

Calvin said it perfectly; "As if a buyer, who doesn't want what you have, will change his mind because of a close? Please! What salesperson thinks that?"

(3) Sales people do not convince. This is a very, very poor assumption of those who have not been well trained (or mislead). I can see how this can be misconstrued but, honestly, no one can really convince a buyer to buy. Yes, we have influence over people but we are not in the brain washing business.

If we were brain washers then the statement; "He could sell snowballs to Eskimos" would be true. But we are not. And there is so much business out there that there is no need to even try to sell to a prospect who does not have a real need for our product or service.

Yes, it is true, there are unscrupulous sales people. There are also pushy sales people who don't get it and end up giving us, the real pros in a serious profession, a bad name. But just because there are bad actors (this is an expression, not a put down of the acting profession) does not mean the sales industry is slimy or that sales techniques are less than totally professional.

(4) There are selling situations where there is little difference between you and the competition. In these situations you better ask for the business, if you do not and the other sales person does he/she will be taking their significant other out on the town with the commission check, not you. And, there was no reason why you could not have had the experience of winning that business instead of someone else. Remember; "if not you then who?"

Need I go on? I could ... instead of more reasons how about this;

Books and authors like this one are successful (to a certain degree). What they do is prey upon the minds of people who are not really sure yet that this industry is a great one. Those who end up being preyed upon are good people who are, for whatever reason, second guessing what they do or a little unsure of themselves at the time and they clutch for straws to save themselves from feeling they are in a slimy industry or doing anything wrong.

What is wrong with this method of selling books/materials is that it definitely hurts all of us. It does not put an end to the blemish on our industry, is prolongs this negativity. As some become deceived and themselves become deceivers. Interestingly, it is the deceived that are more dangerous, as you cannot tell a liar or a misleader when they do not know they are misleading!

Earl Nightingale sold more motivational training than anyone else in history. Ask yourself, Would he use this technique to sell a book or tape? I suggest the answer is no. Why would we need to be less than integral to sell information when we can sell an unlimited amount of training easily and not delve into the few skeletons hiding in the back of the closet of what should be revered as the greatest industry in the world?

I cannot blame you for asking about the quote Thomas. I can see that it did not sit right with you. And, I am sure, you have learned what author not to read in the future, which is a wholesome benefit from this experience. Perhaps you can get your money back?

"It is an ill wind indeed that blows no good." We all should thank Thomas for saving us $20 ... glad I won't be buying that source of obviously useless information!

Gold! What a rant!

...and you're right on.

Saying you shouldn't close (or complete) a sale is like saying there's something ethically wrong with selling goods and services in a free market economy. Selling is an honorable profession. There are honorable people who sell and dishonorable people who sell, but that distinction has nothing to do with "closing".

Skip Anderson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Anderson

Gold! What a rant!

...and you're right on.

Saying you shouldn't close (or complete) a sale is like saying there's something ethically wrong with selling goods and services in a free market economy. Selling is an honorable profession. There are honorable people who sell and dishonorable people who sell, but that distinction has nothing to do with "closing".

Skip Anderson

OK...but please come at me one at a time.

I don't take back my disagreement with the book author's choice of words......BUT..

I believe that "closing" is the least important component in the selling process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Closer

OK...but please come at me one at a time.

I don't take back my disagreement with the book author's choice of words......BUT..

I believe that "closing" is the least important component in the selling process.

To be honest, JC, I wasn't directing my comments at you, I wasn't even aware of your feeling, I was just commenting on the general thread topic.

Not to get us off topic in this thread, but I would be interested in knowing what you believe are more important components in the selling process than closing. Thanks...

Skip Anderson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Anderson

Not to get us off topic in this thread, but I would be interested in knowing what you believe are more important components in the selling process than closing. Thanks...

Skip Anderson

Fair enough question. But first I need to say that I don't look upon selling in the same linear process that it's most often taught.

Closing is a natural result of the experience that takes place between buyer and seller. So I value the creation of a good experience above everything else.

But the experience is not a component itself. It is more a complex of successful execution of components.

I'll name three.

First, Agreement. Agreement comes early in a successful sales conversation, contrary to what a lot of people believe. It is then built upon throughout...always present.

Second, the Qualifying process which is often a disqualfying process. (Keep in mind that all selling "systems" are really time management systems in conversational form.)

Third, Attitudal Identification. This is the process of being able to identify the existence or degree of mutual trust and respect.

I hope that suffices to answer your question. I'm tired and I'm going to bed.

Yah, Skip. It is important that true leaders like ourselves pass this on. Ours is a great industry with amazing people in it that do what they do in spite of a ridiculous image that surrounds us, even within the industry. WE can't let it stop us. We are champions, not only in the sales arena but as leaders in the sales training arena, it is up to us to put a solid stop to serious BS.

If we don't do it (and I don't specifically mean Skip, he knows), it won't get done.

It will never cease to bother me that crap is circulated around and passed of as expertise to mislead those who don't have the experiences yet to know better. We - in our small way - Cannot let that happen.

08:36 PM

Hey, Joe Closer, I am having trouble figuring out why your post, 2nd from the last, said "come at me one at a time". My comments were not directed at you personally or what you stated in the thread. My references were to Skip and Calvin, with advice to Thomas, who was good enough to share the passage that tells us not to buy that book. And Skip simply quoted me.

Joe, listen, I read your posts with great interest. It is very clear that you are a student of sales. Very clear indeed. And, that takes time and serious commitment, which I commend you for. However ... please, I have to say certain things here.

Nothing I stated in my post, which Skip quoted, states that closing is the most important part of the sale. However, it is the culmination of the sale. And how can we argue or understate that importance. To start with a simple comment; without sales, and a reasonable amount of them, we do not survive, that's what makes us and what we do so incredible.

Here is what, well, sort of gets me with your post - there are times when closing is very important element in a sale. There are equally more times when it is not so.

You can beleive in a perfect world that you built the foundation of the sale strongly with every selling situation, that closing is a minor part of each sale as a result but that is just not the case. And we can list examples of situations where it is really important, as my long post already alluded to.

I mentioned situations with very close competition. Take a Minolta copier and a Toshiba, where the technology is about the same. There are dealers with excellent service track records that are well established, this is not an issue. Both sales people bring in demos, the staff likes them both. But the buyer is not a friendly guy really, neither sales person sets up a relationship that would cause this personality type to want to do business with one over the other - just because of the buyers personality, not a lack of sales skills. Who gets the order?

Did you know going in that this buyer was not going to end up not being your best example of "mutual trust and respect"? No. Should you disqualify this potential sale because after you have spent the money to bring in a trial machine and the time to meet with the buyer twice and train their staff during the demo, that they just wouldn't warm up to you? Why, they didn't warm to your competitor either!

This happened to me early in my sales career. I was vested in the sale by the virtue of time and effort I committed, so I did not walk away. And I lost. I also asked the buyer why the other guy got the order, the answer is one of the great teaching moments in a sales career.

I will get back to that in a moment.

A friend of mine, who died about a decade ago, was telling me about a girl he new in high school in his senior year. She was gorgeous, he had the real hots for her, he took her out but she ended up with another guy. My deceased buddy then asked her why at school one day, the answer was essentially the same as what the buyer told me!

Both had to do with closing the sale.

Now, I do not intend to enter into a debate about premarital sex but my friend lost out because he was too shy to close the deal (and I will just leave it at that). He told me, since that day, he never lost out for that reason ever again. Sure as I am typing this post, I can tell you that ol' Fast Eddy (as he was known), got a few slaps in his face before he passed on at the age of 42 but he also "closed the deal" more than his average competitor (if I can pout it that way).

Was Fast Eddy ever in a race with a "competitor" again, I can't say. I know that was not the only way he "won the sale" because I was with him one New Year's Eve and saw another example of why you sometimes need to close. And why it (closing) is not always just a natural result of the sale.

Are you wondering why I lost my copier sale? I will tell you. The guy was last in. He told the buyer "I am not leaving till you give me the order!" And he got it. I could have but he got it.

Was I ever in a race with another competitor. Well, unlike Fast Eddy's life, this I can answer. Yes, several times. And at least one more time I lost that I know of. But this time because I had a machine that was higher priced and did not offer any features the buyer needed over my competition's machine.

I have been in selling situation unlike the "race with the competitor" I have described above in three ways. I could go on and on with real life examples. I can also tell you about disqualifying buyers I probably could have closed but did not feel I wanted as clients.

What I am trying to say is - in real life, there is no cut and dry. Things are not one way, black and white, Instead there are many shades of gray. And, when we deal with people we have to deal with the human condition and all of its many variations. None of this has much to do with the book quote. It is just that we cannot get too clinical about selling. Skills exist for a reason. Because really smart people for centuries have been figuring out the art of selling and passing it along.

All of us need to get off our high horses about the way selling is and what we beleive for this reason. We are just the last generation of selling practitioners, Johnny-come-lately-s if you will!

Sure, salesmanship was passed on by word of mouth first. Finally by scribe (Socrates), then in print, then on LP recordings, starting with old 78's. And finally by audio tapes, CD's and DVD's. Now we have the Internet complete with salespractices.com and youtube.com. The method of passing on skills has changed but selling really hasn't.

Closing is a skill not because it is more important that other skills or should be compared to them but because it is a skill that is important all on its own. If you are to master our profession, first you must master this skill (as well as all the others). Best of luck always.

	#3
Gold Calling "Top Sales Expert"	A source of useless information. Thomas - here is what I think (for whatever value you may feel my opinion is worth) ... take that book and throw in into the trash can. There are so many reasons why this author is missing the mark that it is just clearly not an influence you want in your career. In my opinion this author uses a direct marketing technique known as "Sleazy Tabloid Headlines" to get noticed and sell books. This is kind of like those trashy tabloids on the way out of a supermarket that say "Tom Cruise's son is an alien!" Here are just a few things that are way off base with this comment; (1) As Skip mentioned, closing is not the same as lack of integrity. (2) Sales do CLOSE, as in a real estate transaction is CLOSED. To have a CLOSE take place in the eyes of the law both money must change hands and services or goods must be provided. However, as a sales practice or technique, "any question you ask, the answer to which confirms the prospect wants your product" is a closing question. Once this professional definition is established, how does the following show lack of integrity? "Would you like us to deliver that Friday or is one day next week more convenient?" Or, is the next example bad for either the prospect or the sales person? "Is there any reason why we can't get the paperwork out of the way?" Calvin said it perfectly; "As if a buyer, who doesn't want what you have, will change his mind because of a close? Please! What salesperson thinks that?" (3) Sales people do not convince. This is a very, very poor assumption of those who have not been well trained (or mislead). I can see how this can be misconstrued but, honestly, no one can really convince a buyer to buy. Yes, we have influence over people but we are not in the brain washing business. If we were brain washers then the statement; "He could sell snowballs to Eskimos" would be true. But we are not. And there is so much business out there that there is no need to even try to sell to a prospect who does not have a real need for our product or service. Yes, it is true, there are unscrupulous sales people. There are also pushy sales people who don't get it and end up giving us, the real pros in a serious profession, a bad name. But just because there are bad actors (this is an expression, not a put down of the acting profession) does not mean the sales industry is slimy or that sales techniques are less than totally professional. (4) There are selling situations where there is little difference between you and the competition. In these situations you better ask for the business, if you do not and the other sales person does he/she will be taking their significant other out on the town with the commission check, not you. And, there was no reason why you could not have had the experience of winning that business instead of someone else. Remember; "if not you then who?" Need I go on? I could ... instead of more reasons how about this; Books and authors like this one are successful (to a certain degree). What they do is prey upon the minds of people who are not really sure yet that this industry is a great one. Those who end up being preyed upon are good people who are, for whatever reason, second guessing what they do or a little unsure of themselves at the time and they clutch for straws to save themselves from feeling they are in a slimy industry or doing anything wrong. What is wrong with this method of selling books/materials is that it definitely hurts all of us. It does not put an end to the blemish on our industry, is prolongs this negativity. As some become deceived and themselves become deceivers. Interestingly, it is the deceived that are more dangerous, as you cannot tell a liar or a misleader when they do not know they are misleading! Earl Nightingale sold more motivational training than anyone else in history. Ask yourself, Would he use this technique to sell a book or tape? I suggest the answer is no. Why would we need to be less than integral to sell information when we can sell an unlimited amount of training easily and not delve into the few skeletons hiding in the back of the closet of what should be revered as the greatest industry in the world? I cannot blame you for asking about the quote Thomas. I can see that it did not sit right with you. And, I am sure, you have learned what author not to read in the future, which is a wholesome benefit from this experience. Perhaps you can get your money back? "It is an ill wind indeed that blows no good." We all should thank Thomas for saving us $20 ... glad I won't be buying that source of obviously useless information! __________________ Hunger for Profit System© want to make more commissions or more profit, then you need to stop wasting time now! http://hungerforprofit.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Last edited by Gold Calling : 11-13-2007 at 05:26 PM.

	#4
Gold Calling "Top Sales Expert"	I could write that book! Here is my sleazy tabloid headline; "Brain wash all of your prospects into breaking open their wallets and giving away their families' savings so you can get rich while others wonder what happened!" As if ... Please, excuse my sarcasm, it is rare for me to display in such an awesome place as this forum. It is just that I cannot stand aside and allow that kind of crap to be passed on to the innocent.

	#10
Gold Calling "Top Sales Expert"	Dear Joe; Hey, Joe Closer, I am having trouble figuring out why your post, 2nd from the last, said "come at me one at a time". My comments were not directed at you personally or what you stated in the thread. My references were to Skip and Calvin, with advice to Thomas, who was good enough to share the passage that tells us not to buy that book. And Skip simply quoted me. Joe, listen, I read your posts with great interest. It is very clear that you are a student of sales. Very clear indeed. And, that takes time and serious commitment, which I commend you for. However ... please, I have to say certain things here. Nothing I stated in my post, which Skip quoted, states that closing is the most important part of the sale. However, it is the culmination of the sale. And how can we argue or understate that importance. To start with a simple comment; without sales, and a reasonable amount of them, we do not survive, that's what makes us and what we do so incredible. Here is what, well, sort of gets me with your post - there are times when closing is very important element in a sale. There are equally more times when it is not so. You can beleive in a perfect world that you built the foundation of the sale strongly with every selling situation, that closing is a minor part of each sale as a result but that is just not the case. And we can list examples of situations where it is really important, as my long post already alluded to. I mentioned situations with very close competition. Take a Minolta copier and a Toshiba, where the technology is about the same. There are dealers with excellent service track records that are well established, this is not an issue. Both sales people bring in demos, the staff likes them both. But the buyer is not a friendly guy really, neither sales person sets up a relationship that would cause this personality type to want to do business with one over the other - just because of the buyers personality, not a lack of sales skills. Who gets the order? Did you know going in that this buyer was not going to end up not being your best example of "mutual trust and respect"? No. Should you disqualify this potential sale because after you have spent the money to bring in a trial machine and the time to meet with the buyer twice and train their staff during the demo, that they just wouldn't warm up to you? Why, they didn't warm to your competitor either! This happened to me early in my sales career. I was vested in the sale by the virtue of time and effort I committed, so I did not walk away. And I lost. I also asked the buyer why the other guy got the order, the answer is one of the great teaching moments in a sales career. I will get back to that in a moment. A friend of mine, who died about a decade ago, was telling me about a girl he new in high school in his senior year. She was gorgeous, he had the real hots for her, he took her out but she ended up with another guy. My deceased buddy then asked her why at school one day, the answer was essentially the same as what the buyer told me! Both had to do with closing the sale. Now, I do not intend to enter into a debate about premarital sex but my friend lost out because he was too shy to close the deal (and I will just leave it at that). He told me, since that day, he never lost out for that reason ever again. Sure as I am typing this post, I can tell you that ol' Fast Eddy (as he was known), got a few slaps in his face before he passed on at the age of 42 but he also "closed the deal" more than his average competitor (if I can pout it that way). Was Fast Eddy ever in a race with a "competitor" again, I can't say. I know that was not the only way he "won the sale" because I was with him one New Year's Eve and saw another example of why you sometimes need to close. And why it (closing) is not always just a natural result of the sale. Are you wondering why I lost my copier sale? I will tell you. The guy was last in. He told the buyer "I am not leaving till you give me the order!" And he got it. I could have but he got it. Was I ever in a race with another competitor. Well, unlike Fast Eddy's life, this I can answer. Yes, several times. And at least one more time I lost that I know of. But this time because I had a machine that was higher priced and did not offer any features the buyer needed over my competition's machine. I have been in selling situation unlike the "race with the competitor" I have described above in three ways. I could go on and on with real life examples. I can also tell you about disqualifying buyers I probably could have closed but did not feel I wanted as clients. What I am trying to say is - in real life, there is no cut and dry. Things are not one way, black and white, Instead there are many shades of gray. And, when we deal with people we have to deal with the human condition and all of its many variations. None of this has much to do with the book quote. It is just that we cannot get too clinical about selling. Skills exist for a reason. Because really smart people for centuries have been figuring out the art of selling and passing it along. All of us need to get off our high horses about the way selling is and what we beleive for this reason. We are just the last generation of selling practitioners, Johnny-come-lately-s if you will! Sure, salesmanship was passed on by word of mouth first. Finally by scribe (Socrates), then in print, then on LP recordings, starting with old 78's. And finally by audio tapes, CD's and DVD's. Now we have the Internet complete with salespractices.com and youtube.com. The method of passing on skills has changed but selling really hasn't. Closing is a skill not because it is more important that other skills or should be compared to them but because it is a skill that is important all on its own. If you are to master our profession, first you must master this skill (as well as all the others). Best of luck always. Last edited by Gold Calling : 11-13-2007 at 08:36 PM.

Closes are for shysters and charlatans

Closing the Sale