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#71
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| Trying To Understand
"So let me make sure I understand you...
1. You proudly pronounce that you didn't "chase the sale" (as if that is an admirable quality)
2. And you proudly pronounce that you "chase the business that might be there." (which is an admirable quality, but one that is in direct conflict with #1 above.
Hmm. That makes zero sense.
I'm just curious: Who are "the old timers"?" -- Skip
I'm trying to understand too, Skip - sometimes you seem either awfully inexperienced or naive to me but that just can't be true. So I guess we're both confused a little.
Okay, I'll try this way - here's a story. Four or five years ago I met an old timer who sold roofing materials all his life. One day he sat me down to teach me how to do it. Here's what he said to me.
First he said I had to learn this formula: AIDCA meaning attention, interest, desire, conviction, and action. And he also gave me some definitions of what he meant and some advanced training.
He said he used to carry around a shingle, knock on the door, and he had to be a smiling, warm guy to the ladies of the house. He had to appeal to their sense of security and warmth. He had to appeal to their fears AND he had to get one NO after another if necessary. He said he had to get on his knees if necessary to ask for a sale because "that's how you propose to your wife and if getting on one knee is good enough for asking for someone's hand it's good enough for asking for a sale."
He said you have to wear out people but when they buy lavishly praise them and give them some kind of deal even if it was in the plan in the beginning - make them feel like they earned it. AND he said to always say, "God bless you." every every time.
He told me you have to chase the sale meaning you have to treat everyone you prospect as a close and not quit until they ask you to leave.
Since then I've met young timers who are pretty much the same - not all - but many though sometimes variations on that old timer's theme.
I chase the business meaning I prospect to find people who want what I offer BUT I don't chase the sale as I just described it. It's funny, the guy's name was Dick and some would say he lived his sales life true to his name as it might be used in a negative way.
Maybe my story will help you understand, Skip. I believe you truly want to understand my posts and for some reason I'm not clear in a way that makes sense to you -- I'll try harder.
MitchM
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#72
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Originally Posted by MitchM
"So let me make sure I understand you...
1. You proudly pronounce that you didn't "chase the sale" (as if that is an admirable quality)
2. And you proudly pronounce that you "chase the business that might be there." (which is an admirable quality, but one that is in direct conflict with #1 above.
Hmm. That makes zero sense.
I'm just curious: Who are "the old timers"?" -- Skip
I'm trying to understand too, Skip - sometimes you seem either awfully inexperienced or naive to me but that just can't be true. So I guess we're both confused a little.
Okay, I'll try this way - here's a story. Four or five years ago I met an old timer who sold roofing materials all his life. One day he sat me down to teach me how to do it. Here's what he said to me.
First he said I had to learn this formula: AIDCA meaning attention, interest, desire, conviction, and action. And he also gave me some definitions of what he meant and some advanced training.
He said he used to carry around a shingle, knock on the door, and he had to be a smiling, warm guy to the ladies of the house. He had to appeal to their sense of security and warmth. He had to appeal to their fears AND he had to get one NO after another if necessary. He said he had to get on his knees if necessary to ask for a sale because "that's how you propose to your wife and if getting on one knee is good enough for asking for someone's hand it's good enough for asking for a sale."
He said you have to wear out people but when they buy lavishly praise them and give them some kind of deal even if it was in the plan in the beginning - make them feel like they earned it. AND he said to always say, "God bless you." every every time.
He told me you have to chase the sale meaning you have to treat everyone you prospect as a close and not quit until they ask you to leave.
Since then I've met young timers who are pretty much the same - not all - but many though sometimes variations on that old timer's theme.
I chase the business meaning I prospect to find people who want what I offer BUT I don't chase the sale as I just described it. It's funny, the guy's name was Dick and some would say he lived his sales life true to his name as it might be used in a negative way.
Maybe my story will help you understand, Skip. I believe you truly want to understand my posts and for some reason I'm not clear in a way that makes sense to you -- I'll try harder.
MitchM
| MitchM, that is a pretty bizarre story. I think you are stretching on that one. Certainly this guy, Dick, is not a banner carrier for those who happen to disagree with your sales philosophy, anymore than he is representative of "oldtimers".
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#73
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| No Joe
No Joe I am not stretching on this one - everything I posted is true AND there is even more - Dick said the things I posted.
Okay, you say he's not representative of most "old timers" and I know he may be extreme BUT my neighbor who has had a roofing business twenty plus years is a variation on the Theme of Dick. I know because we've talked many times and he's just a little more subtle and wouldn't get on one knee - but his scruples are a many notches higher than Dick's.
Obviously to anyone who has studied sales AIDCA is a fairly old timer oriented sales formula and it plays into new timer times too. I've read variations of it here - haven't you, Joe. And obviously there's benefit to understanding what it means and how a buyer might think regardless of how a seller sells.
Skip, you wanted to know my definition of "old timer" and I've given you one concrete and precise though perhaps extreme story with some variations in this post. I continue to look for stimulating discussion here. At last you should know what I define differently between chasing the business and chasing the sale.
MitchM
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#74
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Originally Posted by MitchM
Obviously to anyone who has studied sales AIDCA is a fairly old timer oriented sales formula and it plays into new timer times too. I've read variations of it here - haven't you, Joe. And obviously there's benefit to understanding what it means and how a buyer might think regardless of how a seller sells.
Skip, you wanted to know my definition of "old timer" and I've given you one concrete and precise though perhaps extreme story with some variations in this post. I continue to look for stimulating discussion here. At last you should know what I define differently between chasing the business and chasing the sale.
MitchM
| MitchM, AIDCA was primarly an advertising model. The template was grabbed by some sales training organizations as a convenient way to outline their view of what a sales process should look like. Among them was the Dale Carnegie sales training program.
It was probably more viable in its original purpose--advertising.
As a selling model, I think it has its shortcomings.
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#75
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MitchM
"So let me make sure I understand you...
1. You proudly pronounce that you didn't "chase the sale" (as if that is an admirable quality)
2. And you proudly pronounce that you "chase the business that might be there." (which is an admirable quality, but one that is in direct conflict with #1 above.
Hmm. That makes zero sense.
I'm just curious: Who are "the old timers"?" -- Skip
I'm trying to understand too, Skip - sometimes you seem either awfully inexperienced or naive to me but that just can't be true. So I guess we're both confused a little.
Okay, I'll try this way - here's a story. Four or five years ago I met an old timer who sold roofing materials all his life. One day he sat me down to teach me how to do it. Here's what he said to me.
First he said I had to learn this formula: AIDCA meaning attention, interest, desire, conviction, and action. And he also gave me some definitions of what he meant and some advanced training.
He said he used to carry around a shingle, knock on the door, and he had to be a smiling, warm guy to the ladies of the house. He had to appeal to their sense of security and warmth. He had to appeal to their fears AND he had to get one NO after another if necessary. He said he had to get on his knees if necessary to ask for a sale because "that's how you propose to your wife and if getting on one knee is good enough for asking for someone's hand it's good enough for asking for a sale."
He said you have to wear out people but when they buy lavishly praise them and give them some kind of deal even if it was in the plan in the beginning - make them feel like they earned it. AND he said to always say, "God bless you." every every time.
He told me you have to chase the sale meaning you have to treat everyone you prospect as a close and not quit until they ask you to leave.
Since then I've met young timers who are pretty much the same - not all - but many though sometimes variations on that old timer's theme.
I chase the business meaning I prospect to find people who want what I offer BUT I don't chase the sale as I just described it. It's funny, the guy's name was Dick and some would say he lived his sales life true to his name as it might be used in a negative way.
Maybe my story will help you understand, Skip. I believe you truly want to understand my posts and for some reason I'm not clear in a way that makes sense to you -- I'll try harder.
MitchM
| Thanks for that explanation, MitchM.
I have a distaste for that type of salesperson, too. We share that, MitchM.
What's interesting to me is that I find very few salespeople who operate with the lack of sincerity and genuineness, and the aggressiveness, that you describe in your acquaintance, Dick. Dick may be a reasonably high-performing salesperson, and if he is, then his methodology works. That needs to be acknowledged, even if his modus operandi is distasteful to us. But, I think in the current era in which we live, consumerism is far more prominent than it once was, and prospect's won't succumb to these antics as they once did.
So is this Dick-type of salesperson the type of salesperson you think of when you think of "professional salesperson?"
If so, that may explain why you and I are at odds so often in this forum, because "Dick" doesn't come to mind when I think of high-performing salespeople. He is not the model I subscribe to. And I don't think he's the model that the vast majority of sales professionals follow. Although he does have some of the qualities of high-performing salespeople ("a passion for making deals" and "high energy with focus", for example), and there's nothing wrong with being warm to your prospects, I believe that Dick would be on the periphery of mainstream sales excellence if he were still selling today (I don't know if he's still active or not).
So, MitchM, when post about "engaging prospects" or "using sales tactics", is Dick (or a Dick-like salesperson) what you have in your mind when you read my posts?
That could explain why I seem "awfully inexperienced" and "naive" to you, and why you seem repetitive and resistant to sales knowledgeto me.
Skip
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#76
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Originally Posted by Skip Anderson
So, MitchM, when post about "engaging prospects" or "using sales tactics", is Dick (or a Dick-like salesperson) what you have in your mind when you read my posts?
That could explain why I seem "awfully inexperienced" and "naive" to you, and why you seem repetitive and resistant to sales knowledgeto me.
Skip
| I sincerely believe that the true expanation lies not in those adjectives you guys are exchanging, but can be found in the title of this very thread.
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#77
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Originally Posted by Joe Closer
I sincerely believe that the true expanation lies not in those adjectives you guys are exchanging, but can be found in the title of this very thread.
| JC, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying. Could you elaborate?
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#78
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Originally Posted by Skip Anderson
JC, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying. Could you elaborate?
| Well, obviously I'm referring to the topic Trust and Respect.
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#79
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| A Tire Buying Experience
It rained here last Friday and, while driving home from the office, my car was losing traction on the wet roads. That reminded me I had been putting off getting replacement tires for my car. So, on Saturday I went to the consumerReports.org website and looked up their tire ratings.
Consumer Reports rated tires made by Falken and Nitto highest. Nitto is the one that seemed to suit my driving style best. I never heard of either brand, but since most tires are made offshore now, that did not bother me.
I looked up both websites to find dealers. Falken is sold by Sears and Nitto by a relatively small number of dealers. I called a Nitto dealer and he said, “Nitto doesn’t make tires in the size your car needs. They make tires for racing and high performance sports cars. A few of them fit some other cars, but not many. What you really want is Michelin and we have them in stock. They are less expensive and we install them immediately. When do you want to come over?”
I said, “I haven’t decided yet.”
He said, “What are you concerned about?”
"My car came with Michelins and I want something better now."
"What don't you like about the Michelins?"
"I just want something better."
"You don't have any better choice than Michelins, but we can get you any tire you want.” I ended that conversation quickly.
Then, I called a large local dealer and spoke to Colleen. I asked her, “Do you have a tire in my size that is close in performance to the Nitto tire?”
Colleen said, “The only one that we sell, which is in the same ball park, is the Michelin. However, you can get the Falken tire at Sears for about the same price as Michelin, and it is rated higher than MIchelin. We can provide you with General Tires that are very good, but not as highly rated as the Falken.” That will save you about $200 for a set of four. She then gave me a short explanation.
I said, “Thanks for the suggestion, but the price difference is not important for this car.”
Colleen said, “In that case, good luck with your Falkens. Please try us again when you want tires, shocks or brakes for another vehicle.” The conversation with Colleen took about four minutes.
My wife’s 740-IL will probably need tires in about six months. She does not put much mileage on her car and she doesn’t drive very fast. You can bet that we will buy her tires from Colleen.
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#80
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| Trust & Respect
Excellent example of going about business and the difference between trust and respect vs mistrust and questionable respect because of the quality of a conversation, Joe.
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"So, MitchM, when post about "engaging prospects" or "using sales tactics", is Dick (or a Dick-like salesperson) what you have in your mind when you read my posts?" -- Skip
NO! Not at all! Dick's example was to tell a specific story in a way that might generalize what I called "old timer's" ways of selling.
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"That could explain why I seem "awfully inexperienced" and "naive" to you, and why you seem repetitive and resistant to sales knowledgeto me." -- Skip
"I'm trying to understand too, Skip - sometimes you seem either awfully inexperienced or naive to me but that just can't be true. So I guess we're both confused a little." -- Mike
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This morning I had a face-to-face conversation - after a BNI meeting - with a friend who has been in some kind of sales for twenty-five+ years and currently is an estimator for a plumbing/heating/cooling contractor. Jeff talked about his experiences in sales trainings throughout his life and that these trainings emphasized the AIDCA model as well as learning how to get the sale through clever and sometimes intimidating closing techniques. He said he still witnesses the same kind of "old school" (his words) selling today thought not as much.
Jeff never liked it, he's more in line with what I've posted here and what is my understanding of the high probability prospecting and selling model, and he makes a living at it.
I'm not naive to the reality that in sales situations many very highly successful individuals work from a moral base of low integrity and character using strong armed and pressure tactics as well as leveraging their sale with omissions and half truths - and they make money, sometimes lots of it.
Neither do I believe this is true of everyone or the majority in sales today - I don't see evidence of that in the limited sales situations I'm involved in.
Trust and respect if everything in my book of life and I suspect most who post here would also admit to that ideal.
MitchM
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