Home > Approach > Sell More - Disengage!

Sell More - Disengage!

It's not a contradiction - if you want to sell more you need to disengage. That was the advice given to me eleven years which I ignored for a while. Then, having fustrated myself many times I began contemplating that advice at the same time I began reading "High Probability Selling" and the two voices came together.

But what does it mean to disengage to sell more? What it doesn't mean is to disengage from the relationship that begins when someone says: I want that. That's where the most important engagment comes from in seeing if there's a mutual reason for doing business with trust and conditions of satisfaction being met on both sides. That's the work or "selling" part of selling.

The other part of selling begins with prospecting which is where my maxim comes to play - "sell more - disengage." What I was taught in the beginning that I came to value a few years later was this: Make an offer then disengage from the outcome and what the other person does. If the other person says NO leave it alone. BUT if the other person says: I want that! help that person get it.

The reason more is sold this way than in other ways is because it allows you to work only with high probability prospects toward high probability sales. Also, it frees up time to move on productivly toward he or she who "want's it."

AND disengaging produces highly personal and mutual emotional and rational responses: relaxation and trust, comfort and respect, self esteem and open ness. In other words, the act of disengagement elimates stress and mistrust, eliminates discomfort and disrespect, and eliminates low self esteem and closed mindedness.

There's a mini essay for a Sunday someone may have something to question or add or comment on or contrast.

MitchM - by MitchM
AND disengaging produces highly personal and mutual emotional and rational responses: relaxation and trust, comfort and respect, self esteem and open ness.
For the salesperson or the prospect? - by Thomas
Both, Thomas. It's mutual.

MitchM - by MitchM
Both, Thomas. It's mutual.
How is that possible? If a telemarketer calls me and I say no thanks and they say ok and hang up I don't trust or respect them any more than before they called. Is my response not typical? - by Thomas
Use a comparison, Thomas

If a telemarketer calls me and I say no thanks and they say ok and hang up.

OR

If a telemarketer calls me and I say no thanks and he/she tries to keep it going to make a sale and it takes one or two more attempts to end the call.

Do you feel the same about both?

I'd say it's atypical to not feel better about the first call than the second and that "feeling better" has to do with immediate trust and respect.

MitchM - by MitchM
I'd say it's atypical to not feel better about the first call than the second and that "feeling better" has to do with immediate trust and respect.
Why would I trust or respect a telemarketer I don't know and have only talked with for a few seconds? Because the telemarketer didn't push for a sale after I said no this is suppose to produce mutual trust and respect? What does trust and respect mean to you? - by Thomas
Trust and respect means many things to me, Thomas. One thing it means is when I say NO the other person lets it go and respects my NO. In that small telemarketing relationship I have some trust for that person who says" Okay. Bye! and hangs up. Of course that could change over time if I get more calls and that person starts trying to over come my NO or I say: Don't call again! and that person calls again.

So it's an immediate response and very simple, very direct, very clear to me.

What do mutual trust and respect mean to you, Thomas?

MitchM - by MitchM
What do mutual trust and respect mean to you, Thomas?
I started a thread about different meanings for trust and respect at http://www.salespractice.com/forums/t-7636.html

I still don't understand why I would trust or respect a telemarketer I don't know and have only talked with for a few seconds because the telemarketer didn't push for a sale after I said no. - by Thomas
Hi Thomas - I just saw your thread - I gotta post quick then get moving for a birthday dinner. I don't know why I feel the way I do in that situation and you don't.

I don't like people to push for a sale with me so there's that in my definition I extend to other people - we all do that with our definitions - extend back to the other person and our expectations of them.

When I say an empahtic NO I mean it and if someone says:But . . . but . . . but! and I say NO again and get another: But . . . but . . .! I disrespect and don't trust that person.

I disrespect that person for not respecting my NO and hanging up AND I don't trust that person's judgment who can't take a NO and only wants to make a sale for his/her quota.

I know what I want or don't want and if I'm not sure I'll say: okay, tell me a little more. That's fine. When I hear a little more and decide NO I say that! If the person hangs up I have trust and respect for that person still. If another come back comes back I begin to not have trust and respect for that person for the reasons I mentioned.
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"AND disengaging produces highly personal and mutual emotional and rational responses: relaxation and trust, comfort and respect, self esteem and open ness. In other words, the act of disengagement elimates stress and mistrust, eliminates discomfort and disrespect, and eliminates low self esteem and closed mindedness." - section from original post.

Not just telemarketing but any kind of prospecting is better when the kind of trust and respect I'm posting about is happening. You can always go back to prospects much better than you could had you tried to over come or force or get a sale in the originial call because of the trust and respect a disengaging approach creates for future contact.

MitchM - by MitchM
When I say an empahtic NO I mean it and if someone says:But . . . but . . . but! and I say NO again and get another: But . . . but . . .! I disrespect and don't trust that person.
I would feel that way too but it takes more for a salesperson to earn my trust and respect than not pushing for a sale after I say no. - by Thomas
I'm talking about immediate trust and respect. I establish that with everyone - it's an immediate impression.

MitchM - by MitchM
I would feel that way too but it takes more for a salesperson to earn my trust and respect than not pushing for a sale after I say no.
Thomas, you make a good point.

I get the impression that MitchM is, for purposes of the discussion, moving beyond the pure things that make him successful.

For some people--not all, trust and respect are default attitudes. You can forfeit their trust and respect, but earning it is not an issue.

I respect all people, trust most, until given a reason not to. I sell, so conditions of mutual trust and respect are important to me. I won't do business on either side of the table--buying or selling, where trust and/or respect are absent.

I don't try to earn trust and respect. I try to live my life to deserve it. I like to look at strangers as if they do too.

So where I differ from what MitchM seems to be saying, is that I seek to sell in conditions of trust and respect more than trying to influence those conditions in a selling process. - by Joe Closer
For some people--not all, trust and respect are default attitudes. You can forfeit their trust and respect, but earning it is not an issue.
Not many people trust and respect salespeople by default Joe Closer which can give the salesperson who IS trusted and respected a competitive advantage. - by Frankie
"I respect all people, trust most, until given a reason not to. I sell, so conditions of mutual trust and respect are important to me. I won't do business on either side of the table--buying or selling, where trust and/or respect are absent." -- JC

Agreed - that's what I thought I said or implied.

"I don't try to earn trust and respect. I try to live my life to deserve it. I like to look at strangers as if they do too." -- JC

Agreed. You come to expect it unless proven otherwise.

"So where I differ from what MitchM seems to be saying, is that I seek to sell in conditions of trust and respect more than trying to influence those conditions in a selling process." -- JC

I don't know where/how we differ, JC. Neither do I tey to influence those conditions in a selling process - either they are there or not.

What am I missing?

MitchM - by MitchM
Not many people trust and respect salespeople by default Joe Closer which can give the salesperson who IS trusted and respected a competitive advantage.
I agree with your statement Frankie.

I respect all people, trust most, until given a reason not to. I sell, so conditions of mutual trust and respect are important to me. I won't do business on either side of the table--buying or selling, where trust and/or respect are absent.

I don't try to earn trust and respect. I try to live my life to deserve it. I like to look at strangers as if they do too.

So where I differ from what MitchM seems to be saying, is that I seek to sell in conditions of trust and respect more than trying to influence those conditions in a selling process.
I understand that many of the prospects who will walk through my doors will have their defenses up either out of fear of being sold, fear of making a mistake or some other personal reason. At first contact with these fearful prospects the absence of trust and respect on their side of the table is likely. I wouldn't be doing my job correctly if I turned those fearful prospects away because of that. - by Houston
When I leased the last vehicle the salesman offered me cookies and coffee - that relaxed me! It always does! Then he got a little too friendly and cozy as if I were a long lost cousin AND he was talking too quickly for me to keep track so I had to slow him down and tell him he didn't have to sell me - just listen to me and answer questions. In retrospect, I should have offered him cookies and coffee - it might have relaxed thim too.

"But what does it mean to disengage to sell more? What it doesn't mean is to disengage from the relationship that begins when someone says: I want that. That's where the most important engagment comes from in seeing if there's a mutual reason for doing business with trust and conditions of satisfaction being met on both sides. That's the work or "selling" part of selling.

The other part of selling begins with prospecting which is where my maxim comes to play - "sell more - disengage." What I was taught in the beginning that I came to value a few years later was this: Make an offer then disengage from the outcome and what the other person does. If the other person says NO leave it alone. BUT if the other person says: I want that! help that person get it." -- from my original post

What you say, Houston, is one of the things this post is about -helping people feel comfortable and confident with the salesguy or sales gal.

MitchM - by MitchM
Why would I trust or respect a telemarketer I don't know and have only talked with for a few seconds? Because the telemarketer didn't push for a sale after I said no this is suppose to produce mutual trust and respect? What does trust and respect mean to you?
It's about having the glass half-full or half-empty.

Glass half-full: Trusting and respecting people by default.

Glass half-empty: Mistrusting and disrespecting people by default. But this never turns into trust and respect. These people always have reasons not to trust and respect others.

My experience is that trustworthy and self-respecting people trust and respect others by default.

And the "glass half-empty" people first and foremost don't trust and respect themselves and project it onto others.

These people call a plumber to fix the sink, and then disallowing him to enter your kitchen because they worry that he may steal the silverware. In the French author, AnaÔs Nin's words, "We donít see things as they are; we see things as we are." You assume of others what you practise yourself. In Rogerian therapy this is called projection.

A serial rapist wears a chastity belt because he believes everyone tries to rape him. A serial killer sleeps with a knife and pistol under his pillow because he believes everyone tries to kill him. A bank robber sleeps with his loot under his pillow because he believes everyone tries to rob him.

Thoughts? - by Bald Dog
Not many people trust and respect salespeople by default Joe Closer which can give the salesperson who IS trusted and respected a competitive advantage.
I believe it's not even about trusting salespeople. It's about trusting human beings who happen to sell for a living. Doctors sell, lawyers sell. This is how they put food on the table. It's not about selling per se, but how we sell. We trust doctors because they don't over come objections and bombard us with manipulative closing techniques. Good lawyers are the same.

Thoughts? - by Bald Dog
Thoughts?
IMO, once again your comments aren't in touch with the reality of sales. Many people have good reason to be cautious about where they place their trust. Expecting trust and respect from every Joe off the street, because you gave it first, isn't reasonable. - by Houston
That's it!

Side bar: once upon a time I did a lengthy study of Anais Nin [and Henry Miller] reading all her diaries when I was completing MA work ignoring what I should have been reading except for a little 18th centure literature - I did my MA oral explication on one of her books actually. You brought up these memories with your allusion, Bald Man and her quote is fitting here. I've never studied Rogerian theory.

There's a lot more than meets the eye and a lot more an attentive eye can see.

More sales - disengage!

MitchM - by MitchM
I understand that many of the prospects who will walk through my doors will have their defenses up either out of fear of being sold, fear of making a mistake or some other personal reason. At first contact with these fearful prospects the absence of trust and respect on their side of the table is likely. I wouldn't be doing my job correctly if I turned those fearful prospects away because of that.
that sounds right to me. - by BobSales
Expecting trust and respect from every Joe off the street, because you gave it first, isn't reasonable.
I don't say it's reasonable in general. But it's only reasonable for me as a soldier (well, once a soldier, always a soldier, as the saying goes) and my past experiences. And don't merely hope I get trust and respect from others. And I expect it by giving it first. And human nature is pretty predictable. There is a huge difference.

In my 29 years of jumping, I've made several hundred parachute jumps with chutes someone else (no idea who) packed. My basic premise: Anyone who engages in packing chutes in the jumping area is qualified to do so. I've never see someone be caught of fiddling with chutes but was not qualified to do so.

Maybe we have to better learn how to expect something as opposed to hope for it. And learning a bit of psychology for that can be pretty helpful.

This is how I help clients to hire employees. No resume, no reference check. A few pointed, yet seemingly irrelevant, questions open up the person like a book. We just have to learn how to read it.

Thoughts? - by Bald Dog
"Maybe we have to better learn how to expect something as opposed to hope for it. And learning a bit of psychology for that can be pretty helpful.

This is how I help clients to hire employees. No resume, no reference check. A few pointed, yet seemingly irrelevant, questions open up the person like a book. We just have to learn how to read it.

Thoughts?" -- Bald Dog

If you haven't read my post about a classroom experience it was about expectation and a little psychology vs hoping for something. My expectation was that I'd find a way to control that class and with a little psychology and food my excpectation was met - I should say it included an extension of trust and respect already established and I didn't have to demand it to get it.

I know you'd agree Bald Dog that you can be wrong reading a person - time tells it all or that person's circumstances can change. An astute and intuitive and experienced person in the right situation can do what you do and do it well I believe.

Where do these psychological tests come in to play today for hiring people and what do you think of them?

MitchM - by MitchM
If you haven't read my post about a classroom experience it was about expectation and a little psychology vs hoping for something.
I've read it. It's a brilliant approach. You see, you went first. You expected respect by giving it first, knowing that trust and respect, just like love, commitment or enthusiasm, cannot be demanded.

But where there is trust and respect, there can be love between spouses and parents and their kids, commitment, passion or enthusiasm.

> Where do these psychological tests come in to play today for hiring people and what do you think of them?

I think as people can beat lie detectors, they can also beat psychological tests, unless the questions in the tests are very very indirect.

I've done the Gallup Organisation's Strengthsfinder test and I think it's the best out there. I've found out that I was...

To me that was very very valuable. People's performance depends on their natural strengths and how their managers bring out those strengths in them. So I start asking candidates three basic questions. These three questions were developed by Kathy Sierra, and I've modified them a bit to suit for business development folks...
1. What were the last two trade/professional journals or books you've read relevant to your work? (Or the last two industry conferences, learning programmes or seminars). Most candidates fail right here. They don't bother learning. They're too busy chasing money.
2. Name two of the key people in the business development field. Two people who have made some serious contribution to modern day B2B business development. Here most people name some sales gurus who had their heydays in the 50s, 60s or 70s, selling commodities, but ignore how much the world of selling has changed during recent years.
3. What materials have you purchased recently with your own money which has improved the quality of your work and advanced you as a professional? This is a great filter. Most people would never spend their own money to advance their own careers. They wait for their employers to pay for it. Or they are too busy doing what they learnt years ago.
Three questions and I just read between the lines. It's not foolproof, but a lot better than the retarded resume+reference approach.

Oh, and I would never pay commissions. I don't want people who work for the money. I want people who have something bigger than money.

I like running a business development department like the blend of a functional family and a deadly effective and precise military commando. Treating my people with the care and compassion of a parent and running the family based on principles like a commando. Discipline, accountability, pride, honour, integrity. The pride of enhancing the firm's and the profession's reputation, and the honours of enhancing clients' lives. I've found that this oddball approach attracts great buyers with sexy projects.

To me the commission structure is like paying my kids for good marks at school but refusing them dinner when they bring poor marks. And if they repeatedly bring poor marks, threatening them with giving them up for adoption or giving them to the local bogeyman.

Rant's over...

Thoughts? - by Bald Dog
I don't say it's reasonable in general.
What does that mean Tom? - by SpeedRacer
Excellent rant, Bald Dog! Your questions are superb, very casual with a purpose and would uncover much - thanks. They go into my cache of questions to ponder and use.

Also, I'll check into the link - thanks again.

MitchM - by MitchM
What does that mean Tom?
I mean we all have different values and base our decisions on them. That's why everything I say is based on my values.

Am I making sense? - by Bald Dog
Am I making sense?
Maybe. From your posts it looked like you were saying that 'trustworthy and self-respecting people trust and respect others by default'. In response to Houston's post that it wasn't reasonable expecting 'trust and respect from every Joe off the street because you gave it first' you wrote 'I don't say it's reasonable in general.' Can you reconcile those two statements please? - by SpeedRacer
Maybe. From your posts it looked like you were saying that 'trustworthy and self-respecting people trust and respect others by default'.
This is my belief based on my values and experiences.

'I don't say it's reasonable in general.' Can you reconcile those two statements please?
Everything I say is my truth. But I'm not claiming this is The Truth. it's My Truth and I live by that.

Does this help? - by Bald Dog
Does this help?
Yes. These are your beliefs. Thank you for the clarification Tom. - by SpeedRacer
Beliefs, truths, facts - ambiguity - what fun topics these are to kick around - what do we seek in a post, in a definition?

Being passionate about what I do, about what I sell, gives me the opportunity to present it to people with that strength of conviction; yet disengaged from their decision to say YES or NO in respecting their decision comes trust and freedom in even a very brief relationship - I'm obviously using the word "relationship" in a specific and limited way.

BUT when the decision is YES engagement is critical to arriving at mutually satisfying ends - even when dispassion and clarity of attention is present engagement in the details is absolutely necessary.

MitchM - by MitchM
if you want to sell more you need to disengage.
MitchM
I wholeheartedly disagree with the statement above. Salespeople who are engaged with their prospects (and prospects engaged with the salesperson) will dramatically outsell those salespeople who do not.

Skip Anderson - by Skip Anderson
I'm reposting my previous post with a spelling error corrected.

There You Go Again
There you go again (Skip) cutting & pasting one sentence from a larger context that includes when I find it fitting to engage to make a point of some kind, define terms, etc. Amazing! You add nothing but comments based on cut & pastes.

MitchM - by MitchM
Skip,

My take on Mitch's post is that you're engaged with the prospect but disengage from the outcome, and you respect the prospect enough to accept both ye and no decisions, and don't try to manipulate prospects to say yes when they want to say no. This is a huge problem with the whole sales profession. Not respecting people's decisions unless it makes money for the salespeople. - by Bald Dog
Your take is an unfiltered reading of exactly what I post and have posted many times, Bald Dog, rephrased in your words. Thanks.

MitchM - by MitchM
Beliefs, truths, facts - ambiguity - what fun topics these are to kick around - what do we seek in a post, in a definition?

Being passionate about what I do, about what I sell, gives me the opportunity to present it to people with that strength of conviction; yet disengaged from their decision to say YES or NO in respecting their decision comes trust and freedom in even a very brief relationship - I'm obviously using the word "relationship" in a specific and limited way.

BUT when the decision is YES engagement is critical to arriving at mutually satisfying ends - even when dispassion and clarity of attention is present engagement in the details is absolutely necessary.

MitchM
Your thoughts are quite advanced. You call yourself an amateur out of humility I think. - by Joe Closer
Sales will end in many ways - we know that.

Pride and humility should be mixed in together when there's a balanced and healthy relationship and sens of self worth and esteem - that would seem obvious to me.

I've called myself an amateur, JC, with the definition of being fully passionate and in love with what I do - that's one definition of the word. Also, I'm not the professional who has been successful in sales twenty, thirty, forty years as a profession - I have to differentiate myself from that and respect it.

Also, I believe that direct sales/network marketing is a business of lots of amateurs and that's my business. Because I have a measure of success with my company I could call myself a professional and that would be accurate.

SO professionally respecting your right to say NO and mean it I say GOOD-BYE without engaging in any sales gambit, pitch, over coming your NO retort as if it's merely a little fly in the air for me to swat away -- not really the exclamation of a breathing, heart beating person who means what he says. An amateur would do that - turning these words professional and amateur around - and I won't.

BUT respecting your NO is freedom giving, respectful and in disengaging I can return with no loss of confidence or mutual respect in even the briefest of relationships.

YES on the other hand is when engagement becomes critical in arriving at mutually agreeable conditions of satisfaction and a reason to complete the sale.

Engage in the offering; disengage from the outcome of the offering; engage again if the outcome is: I want that OR I might want that; remain simultaniously engaged and disengaged, relaxed and pliant yet alert and rock solid. Be ready to complete the sale or turn it away.

MitchM - by MitchM
I'm not the professional who has been successful in sales twenty, thirty, forty years as a profession - I have to differentiate myself from that and respect it.

MitchM
Differentiation, or the implied need to differentiate, just may be the biggest issue among those who struggle in the sales arena. A lot of salespeople behave as if they believe that selling requires us to separate ourselves from the rest of the human race.

In two very active current threads, words like "trust", "respect", "yes", and "no" are being examined as if they were new words in the langauge. There actually have been dictionary references offered on another thread.

I, like many here I'm sure, learned the meaning of trust, respect, yes, and no, as a child, long before I ever heard the word "salesperson". Those meanings have not changed.

I love your posts, MitchM, but I don't see you as one who differentiates yourself. I think your strengths may lie in the opposite--an unwillingness to see yourself as different just because you have a product to sell. So--"yes" or "no" mean the same to you as if you were a tool and die maker, a baker, a doctor, or stll wearing your schoolteacher clothes.

I think what you are really disengaging from is the myth that selling requires behavour that is very different. - by Joe Closer
A lot of salespeople behave as if they believe that selling requires us to separate ourselves from the rest of the human race.

I
JC, could you explain more what you mean by your statement? I don't understand. - by Skip Anderson
I had to read that twice - I get it - reflection and bias, the mirror shows what and what does it mean? That's a distinction and differentiation - that there is none when others would make it one.

Obviously we know how we might be defined by other people - maybe - professionally by what we do. Yes, JC, I'm comfortable with that, with disengaging from the myth. That's a great observation to take into other areas - thanks!

I've grappled with strength and weakness and still do from time to time - it's a constant study and discipline and pleasure, sometimes challenging and that's good.

I like your insights, JC! When you can blend in things change - when I could blend into the classroom I became a better teacher, had the best control, and enjoyed the highest degree of pleasure over and over. Authority came from that - giving up power to get it; giving respect to get it; not demanding anything. Okay, from time to time I had to assert - but guess what! It was respected. It was mutual.

Selling as I see and practice it is the same in many ways.

MitchM - by MitchM
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