OPINIONS: Yellow Pages Advertising

I work as a YP Sales Rep.... what do you guys think about YP? Open Discussion if you please.

IYP vs. Print YP

by the way.... according to Yellow Page Integrated Media Association ROI's on YP are............

Local 12:1 with 4:1 profit
National 33:1 with 13:1 profit IIRC

National is higher due to # of locations, ad sizes, and many numbers representing larger coverage area for consumer decision making. Also branding plays a big role. -ilovesuperpages.com

What do the different ratios stand for? -Agent Smith

example

12 dollars return for every dollar spent. ... 4 dollars profit of that.

it is usually a good investment when done right. there are many myths in the YP business... such as ad sizes and which book to choose.... when you have the facts and knowledge and good copy/design.... it is a nice ROI. -ilovesuperpages.com

Do you think the average business advertising in the yellow pages has these facts and knowledge? If not, why? -Agent Smith

LIKE ANYWHERE ELSE......................:(

dishonest sales reps.

Lack of training

Lack of Expertise

Lack of marketing grasp

Not creative thinkers

etc etc etc -ilovesuperpages.com

facts...

demographics... syndicated research...... competitive environment.... industry information.....shopping patterns...... the critical decision making processes.....population...... disposable income...... target market....... current condition/desired position...... amount of business growth opportunity..... business outlook. and lots more.

I have many customers that are thrilled about the YP..... and a few that are disappointed....my job is to make whatever they have work better... whether it is increase, maintain, or decrease investment. -ilovesuperpages.com

We could use a few more like you. :cool: -Agent Smith

http://ypcommando.com/bruce.html#a

interesting article.... I admire this guy... but he does spin in his companies direction (TWP) a little too often! -ilovesuperpages.com

thanks.

What do you do?? -ilovesuperpages.com

I purchase and resale distressed properties. Some call me an investor, some call me worse. :) -Agent Smith

I can't help but wonder...how do they research and determine these numbers?

I have owned a small business, and have only my own personal experience to comment on. It seems to me that the effectiveness of your yellow page advertising would be tried directly to the type of business you are in. For example, as a consumer, when I shop for auto insurance, I let my "fingers do the walking." When I need a pair of shoes, I browse the mall.

I have to admit, ILOVESUPERPAGES, I have mixed feelings about YP advertising (not all positive), but I will say this: It can be VERY effective if that is where your market is. And it can be very expensive. In the 8 years of our business, we spent about $900,000+ on our ads. Needless to say, it was our bloodline.

In our particular market niche, I don't think IYP would replace our full page ads, but we sold our business in 1998 and IYP was not a contender at that time.

One last observation. I sell low-cost websites to small businesses. Many businesses I call on have a website somehow tied to their yellow page advertising. Each one has a different story: Some think their website is free with their ad. Others think they MUST purchase their web page as part of their YP ad. Some say they are not allowed to advertise their website in their YP ad, if it is not provided by the YP company.There are many other variations. No one seems to read the fine print, and it seems like the reps are "sliding" these websites into the deals without being forthcoming with the facts.

Of course, ILSP, this has nothing to do with you, personally. There are bad apples in every barrel. -RainMaker

Numbers are based on nationwide call tracking via unique numbers.

hotlink or website w/ link is about 6 dollars per month difference with superpages.com IYP...... we basically offer the site for nothing. and yes...you can use it wherever you want! site is like a print ad..... the vehicle to generating leads..... not the road that gets you there. -ilovesuperpages.com

we meaning Verizon....the company I work for.:) -ilovesuperpages.com

a double truck..... 2 page spread in the vz dallas book is between 2k and 4k per month..... you spent 9,375 per month... I assume that was multiple books ey tc. Also what heading??? I think that is a pretty hefty budget..... I am really curious about you old message and campaign. Of course too many factors at play to determine whether it was a good or bad decision. Did you break even??

by the way... our Gallup number in Sarasota and Tampa are amazing! choosing another book for volume is nuts... now cost per call may be different... but you need to figure that volume is what achieves the ROI (most of the time) -ilovesuperpages.com

First of all, our ads were between the years 1990-1998. The biggest ad back then was a 3/4 page (which was called a "full page" ad). 90% of our business came from those ads. We sold auto insurance and we were the 1st ad in every book across several counties (we had 8 stores). This was with Bell South (not verizon). We spent roughly 10,000 a month.

Finally, at one point, Bell South got tired of the scramble to get 1st position every year (by creating outrageous dba's that start with the letter "A" ie: A AAA Aardvark insurance), so one year they announced whatever your placement was that year, would be your PERMENANT place (1st, 2nd, 3rd etc.). At the time there were 18 "full page" ads for auto insurance. We landed first in every book. Our yellow page ads became our most valuable asset and allowed us to sell our agency for an all-cash deal because everyone wanted our ads.

How's that for a testimonial? -RainMaker

[quote=ilovesuperpages.com]Of course too many factors at play to determine whether it was a good or bad decision. Did you break even??
QUOTE]
How do you define break even? Are you asking whether the gross profit off the sales that came from that advertising expenditure equaled the amount of the expenditure? -Gary Boye

I don't know what this means, but the aforementioned business was in Broward and Palm Beach Counties (Bellsouth, not Verizon). I have to say I was apalled that the cost for a yellow page ad with Verizon in Saraosta was comparable to the Broward County rate despite the fact that the market has only 1/3 the population.

Spending the kind of money we did on YP advertising would have been suicide in many businesses, but our market niche, at the time, was completely YP driven. You spent the money or you closed down. Those who spent the money but were #18 instead of #1 would often close down too. -RainMaker

wow.... that is a testimonial.... good thing the A AAAA etc. is no longer a factor in terms of display advertising. Size and Seniority only now. A AAAA is strictly the in-column battle now.

I assumed it was Sarasota. My bad. :o -ilovesuperpages.com

[quote=Gary Boye] break even to me is about a 200% return. Pay for the ad and cost of providing the services/products. Also only a few headings have a cost of sale = cost of ad ratio. Mortgages..... Attorneys..... Industrial related...... construction related. Unless of course you are dealing with small exposusure.

Insurance is a Volume business..... avg customers are 50.00 per initial sale and 100+ annually every year following at least. I believe I am pretty accurate here. -ilovesuperpages.com

You really seem to know your facts. Do you have any idea on what percentage of consumers use the yellow pages to find a real estate agent (Buyer's Agent and/or Seller's Agent)? -AZBroker

Keep in mind the forgotton BIG benefit of YP..... extends the reach of other media on average by 40-55%. Hear the ad... go to the book.


sources:
http://www.ypima.org

Real Estate is ranked the #26 Heading w/ 94.6 Million references


purchase over 12 months.... 13% from YP. nu.mbers based on Dallas Texas...but should give you an IDEA.... also this does not include the about fact of extends other medias reach.

References:::
Catelogs 4%
Coupons 1%
Direct Mail 8%
News Paper (Parrot Paper:) ) 16%
Mag 5%
TV 4%
Radio 2 %
Internet 32%
YP Print 11 %
YP Internet 16% -ilovesuperpages.com

ILSP, what impact has the Internet had on traditional YP? -SalesGuy

same as the newspaper story.... dallas morning news is still printing an auto section even though the parent company BELO owns www.cars.com

population is up... traditional users still use.

new generation does not search like the old.

some have converted... yet the accessability of the print is still king.

from a user standpoint some use print, some online, and some both.

basically in most business environments there is more competition and a larger audience.... you must both to attract the larger audience and stand out from your competition. most businesses lose 1/3 per year.... if you rely on repeat/referral you will eventually start losing revenue when your funnel becomes dry..... keep prospects comming and you will survive a competitive environment. -ilovesuperpages.com

my opinion .com is a better customer... they have to pay for internet access... the phone line.... the cable.... the pc.... etc.

print recieves a book for free! -ilovesuperpages.com

Have YP advertising rates been affected? -SalesGuy

why should they.... if the book is still generating ROI... why lower rates... you only get less expensive if the Value goes down.

All those competitors think that a cheap yp ad is a smart investment. I tend to think it discourages competition in a book and provides a more significant ROI for the investor! :p -ilovesuperpages.com

Competition with Internet Advertising. -SalesGuy

Why should Print rates go down due to the Internet.... that is like saying due to Fast Food establishments Restaurants should charge less.... The increase in population effects print rates... When the Baby Boomers die the YP business will then need to re-evaluate it's environment.... but untill then rates are not the biggest concerns....

Rates are only a factor in determining ROI... not the main component. -ilovesuperpages.com

Of course this is only my opinion... when two (2) formats are in competition for the same advertising dollar something has got to give. -SalesGuy

do you think Newspaper rates have gone down due to Online news sites? Nope

Take a look at BELO (dallasnews.com) or the New York Times... consistant print increases.... and lies about distribution if you do your homework! lol ;)


The point is that just because there is another format for YP.... does not mean print should be cheaper. They have simply opened up a new stream of customer base. Also appealing to a Google type client...the traditional YP searcher still uses YP...... Online has made an impact in the total number of searches.

From what I recall.... total YP references is way up.... YP users are also up..... YP percentages of uses are down.... that is due to the Internet and Economic changes I assume.

The References and number of Users are the ROI... not how many times people use the book. The big impact is with Online data such as Whitepages.com...... cost of 411 has helped whitepages.com's success and hurt telecom's bottom dollar figures on directory assistance. This does help the usage and possesion of the books as well.

I still use the internet when looking for names and numbers though! :D -ilovesuperpages.com

ILSP, regarding IYP vs. YP your points are well taken.

What are your thoughts about "Internet Advertising" having an impact on future YP pricing?

For instance, I know more than a few real estate brokers/agents who at one time easily spent 1-5k monthly on YP advertising. Now these same brokers/agents have reducd their YP advertising to bare bones and are investing their advertising budgets on "websites" and "PPC".

Do you think this shifting of budget dollars will have any affect on YP pricing? -SalesGuy

not Verizon.... price by size... not heading! with other publishers i am sure it may eventually.

long term it probably will.... not for a few years though. Internet sites have an impact on homes... not necessarily "agents".

Agents think that advertising where people look for "homes" is better than print. I think differently. dont get me wrong both work.... but I think the YP is still a better investment... especially considering the "lack of advertisers!"

LET ME CORRECT THAT STATEMENT. GREAT INVESTMENT WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE ADVERTISING MIX.... (DONT RELY ON ONE SOURCE FOR CUSTOMERS!)

also YP extends the reach of other media... like internet, broshures, flyers, and other creative works. -ilovesuperpages.com

How do you mean? -SalesGuy

basically..... consumer hears your message when they are not ready to buy... goes to the book. Based on your previous impression they choose you.

this is the same advantage national companies have over local.

one of the factors in the 33:1 vs 12:1 ROI that national recieves over local based on YPIMA research (yellow pages integrated media association) -ilovesuperpages.com

HEY, I am not trying to "sell" you an ad here..... Open discussion, anyone care to chime in??:o -ilovesuperpages.com

I understand and appreciate your responses. :) -SalesGuy

Well.... the company I work for Verizon Yellow Pages is now Idearc Media Corp. www.idearc.com

anyone here actually read on wallstreet or has heard about this change?

30yr contract with Verizon to "print" the "Verizon Yellowpages" which is now just the name on the book. Do you think YP will last 30years?

Do people still read newspapers, printed dictionarys, or encyclopedias (sp?)

I see it losing revenue but making it up on the IYP side.

and the new postcards/magazines....... 7000 workers----that should make us the largest direct mail workforce in the country .. right?? -ilovesuperpages.com

Yes, not everyone uses the Internet, but not in the same numbers as before. -BossMan

Not in it's present format no. -AZBroker

The phone book is a directory and in my opinion there is no way to brand a business in a book that stays closed 99% of the time.

MP -MPrince

work as a YP Sales Rep.... what do you guys think about YP? Open Discussion if you please.

IYP vs. Print YP

by the way.... according to Yellow Page Integrated Media Association ROI's on YP are............

Local 12:1 with 4:1 profit
National 33:1 with 13:1 profit IIRC -kangyu

kangyu...my opinion of YP advertising is that you are putting a tremendous amount of your annual advertising budget in a "directory". It is a book that stays closed better than 99% of the time. An analogy; think of having a billboard with a tarp over it 99% of the time. Try and find some of the national companies that could afford to put an ad in every book in the country in the YP.

That is my opinion! -MPrince

I'm just a little company, but I have good things to say about YP. I don't really care for a couple of the books and their auto annual renewal. I wanted to make some changes in one of the books this year, just to find out they had already renewed and given me the same I had last year :(

I have a very catchy name and am always close to first. So the 3 books I advertise in have done me well. I'm in a couple others for surrounding areas but the main books for my city have 3 different company's. Figure I have to be in all 3.

I also think it depends on what business you're in whether YP will work for you. For example if I was an attorney I don't think YP would bring me any new customers. -Justin Time

Hey the yellow pages are good for some businesses, but they're tied to phones and phones are changiing so rapidly that I can't help but think that the YP may be at risk. -ToddR

I think every copy of the YP I've had dropped on my doorstep in the last two years has gone directly into the recycle bin. I've got Google in my pocket.

There ought to be a way to opt out of receiving these archaic yellow bricks. Why spend the money to print, package, and deliver when so many people neither need nor want them. Such a waste.

Yellow pages are obsolete. -D.M055